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JAM News demo (1976)
  • BarrasBarras June 2012
    In the “Radio 1 Memories” thread I was asking whether the Radio 1 News jingle from 1976 was a "custom" - I`ve just discovered the instrumental version in a rare JAM News demo, therefore, it wasn`t a custom.

    You also hear the Radio 2 news theme from the 1970s.

    Here`s the JAM demo from 1976…enjoy.

    JAM NEWS THEME (1976) DEMO by DavidBarras
  • wixy1360wixy1360 June 2012
    Interesting find David. And a few "variants" I've never heard before.

    No narration though, which might have provided a deeper insight into what was being offered, but if 1976 would JAM surely then be doing EVERYTHING as a custom commission initially rather than a "template-style" Series - Jon was innovatively breaking away from the "PAMS way" in the early days of JAM.

    OK some of the R2 items also appear with the "WLS" logo elsewhere in the late 1970s, but only Jon would be able to say "cart" or "horse".

    I also noticed a news-in with its "trailing pad" that sounded like JAM creating a "refresh" of the CBS-network news-sounder from circa 1971/2 (e.g. WCBS AM New York, KCBS AM San Francisco, ancient station dubs of which I have here) which I believe originally were done by another producer (can't recall their name, but they've been posted by JMers before).
  • SeanMartinSeanMartin June 2012
    My money is on the Radio 1 news jingle being a custom ;)

    It also sounds like it was re-built in 1980 - brass and strings out, lots of electronic ticks, bleeps and whatnot added.

    Clever.
  • That would make sense, what with the WPEN trail included in the above demo as well despite not appearing in the original "Back Seat Music" one sent out.

    Though it later appeared with the KRLA resings.
  • LenGroatLenGroat June 2012
    I think as the melody logo of 'Ray Dee O Wun' runs throughout the cut it was a custom..

    +
    I believe Jon was very proud to get the BBC from PAMS so put a herculean amount of effort in to create the jingles; the rest is jingle history and is why JAM is now so deeply respected
  • JAM+%2F+PAMSJAM / PAMS June 2012
    The audio which began this thread is an ancient JAM "News Sampler" demo, containing an assortment of news-related cuts we had available at the time. The sampler was constantly updated over the years, with each new version being identified by the next letter in the alphabet (for example, "News Sampler B", "News Sampler C" etc.) In each revision some older cuts would be retired and replaced by newer ones.

    We would add a few short "beeps" (bursts of tone) over each of the cuts, so that if someone decided to lift something to use illegally we would hear the beeps and know that it came from the demo. Some other companies back then would run a 25 Hz tone under an entire demo, or use much more annoying noises to discourage piracy. We opted for something that wouldn't completely ruin the listening experience!
  • wixy1360wixy1360 June 2012
    "run a 25 Hz tone under an entire demo"

    Historically, would that account for the strange "fluttering effect" that appeared on some copies of the PAMS Series 40 demo that circulated in the UK in the early 1970s?
    I was told it was "just a dud tape with wow & flutter" but it seemed more "intentional" to me.
  • tcarmantcarman June 2012
    Actually, Iain, there are demos by Drake-Chenault that ran the tone Jon's referencing through them. The fluttering effect you reference probably was just a bad dub!
  • BarrasBarras June 2012
    I recall the days when Dave Langer (TC rep in the UK - Thompson Creative that is ! :) ) would put tone on his cassettes of jingle-audio, which was fair enough really, as Jon said earlier to prevent piracy.
  • wixy1360wixy1360 June 2012
    "Drake-Chenault demos ... tone"

    Was indeed - I was once dubbed the Drake Series 1 demo by the PD of WTOB Winston-Salem and he remarked it "had some kind of tone on it" (a number of inst stingers etc in the package of course).
    Didn't stop WTOB going for the package after many years of PAMS though!
  • tomobietomobie June 2012
    The practice of putting a 25 hertz tone on demo tapes was explained to me by
    Tommy Gwin of Gwinsound in the mid 60’s. Cart machines used the 25 hertz tone to “start & stop” carts on separate track known as the cue track. If you dubbed a reel-to-reel tape with the 25 hertz tone…the cart machine would stop, because the cue head heard the tone and stopped the cart from playing. You might get a small portion, maybe 2 seconds of audio before stopping.

    There were some ingenious folks who used a notch filter & just eliminated the 25 hertz tone…although this wasn’t something that was done very often.

    I don’t remember any PAMS, CRC or TM demos with the tone. I do remember some of the Cuff & Co. demos with the tone.
  • JAM+%2F+PAMSJAM / PAMS June 2012
    > Cart machines used the 25 hertz tone to “start & stop” carts

    Actually, most cart machines used 1 kHz as their primary tone for that purpose. Later machines also used secondary and tertiary tones to do other things, but neither of them was 25 Hz. Many early radio station automation systems had songs recorded on 10" or 14" reel-to-reel tapes. The 25 Hz tone was used at the end of the song, or during the fade, to tell the system to begin the next event. The theory was that it would not be audible on the air. Of course, sometimes it wasn't audible to the automation system either, and havoc ensued .

    I suppose if someone ripped off a jingle from a demo with a 25 Hz tone on it, and tried to use it on an automation system, it wouldn't work very well. But I don't think that was much of a concern back then.
  • tomobietomobie June 2012
    Guess Tommy Gwin's information was wrong [-X
  • AndyWAndyW June 2012
    Tones are still used today. BBC Local Radio use a 22Hz tone, out of phase to set and unset the RDS TA flag. It used to be a lot higher in the days of carts but had to become subsonic when computer automation came in as the mp2 compression would not accurately capture the high pitched tone. You can't hear it but you can definitely see it on the meters, especially when looking in M/S. I think I've got a copy of the TM 'You' demo with a low level warbling tone underneath it. Sounds a little like those computer games you used to get on a cassette.

    Wessex FM (remember them?) used a 25Hz tone on their night tape (a six hour pre recorded segment on Nicam VHS of all things!) The late presenter used to leave a cart with the night ads in Cart m/c 1 and the night tape fired them off using the tone. There was a blank gap of the same length as the break on the night tape. Very occasionally you'd hear the tracking go on the video. More often though you'd hear the ad cart chew.
  • Yes I still have a Dave Langer cassette with the Hospital Radio Song on it swamped in 1kHz tone. I have to say I was seriously put off trying to copy it but not because of the tone but because it was such an awful jingle !
  • I was aware that radio one's news jingle kept changing subtely over the years and would be interested to know how many variants there actually are. Be nice to montage them all.

    Regarding umderlying tones I felt sure this was the case when I received the Pams #37 demo. It produced a sort of buzzing which I thought at the time was a harmonic. Someone also told me that some tones were designed to prevent good copies by reacting with tape bias. Anyone else hear that idea?
  • Thank you Chalks, as a newcomer to JM I have missed a lot of input!

    Nice montage too, nor I did not notice anything missing.
  • wixy1360wixy1360 June 2012
    "reacting with tape bias"
    Now THAT does sound distantly familiar from back then.

    Where's TMobie - he's ex-station engineering and more - I'm sure he'd know!
  • tomobietomobie June 2012
    Norman I’ve never heard of using bias used to prevent copying of tapes. Bias is the amount of electrical current applied to the audio signal being recorded. I think what you’re referring to is called “bias-beating” an undesirable frequency produced as a result from a shift in the bias. It occurs when the amount of bias is less than one half the frequencies being recorded.

    Jon is right & I was wrong regarding the 1 kHz tone (actually Tommy Gwin was wrong)…but there was a 25Hz tone used to prevent stations from dubbing jingle packages. I distinctly remember the tone used on an American Independent Radio demo…see link: http://reelradio.com/production/index.html#kafyaajings. Toward the bottom of the page...between TM's "Beat Goes On" demo & "Solid Gold Rock & Roll" demo

    The 25Hz tone is/was used as the “slate” tone frequency. Engineers would hit the slate button and announce “take 1-take 27” or whatever. When applied, at normal operating speed, you can’t hear it…you CAN see on the VU’s. But when you rewind the tape, because it’s travelling at a faster rate than 7 ½ or 15 ips, the 25Hz tones become audible beeps and the engineer just counts the number of beeps to get to the right “take.”
  • I did not explain myself properly. The idea was that a high frequency tone would cause harmonics with the bias of the recording machine if copied.

    This is opposed to low frequency tones which as you say, can be heard when fast forwarding. I have never heard absolute proof of the idea.
  • Chalks, I did find some News cuts you missed in your News montage; these are all the versions from my 1976 Dub:-

    http://www.normanb.net/upload/Jam_1976_News_Radio_One.mp3

    I cannot recall if these cuts were actually aired, if not perhaps that's why you didn't include it?

    David - this may be of interest to you too, do these news versions appear in your copy of the 1976 Package? Also I have some cuts DJ Name-Good Morning versions in there that do not appear in your list, plus my dub is in a different order too which make it tough to compare!
  • Hi Norman

    Yes I have these on my dub of the '76 package but I don't think that they aired. I only included air versions in the montage. The '76 news in 'air version' appears near the end of the CD and is separate from the mixes you link to above.

    I wonder if Jon would release the Log Sheets for the various reels sent out - this would nail it. I have always wanted to know what was on those first 6x 7" reels! Why some are copied and some are mono only - could be the chart numbers, they are mono on the dub.

    This would also clear up the confusion about the 'Radio 1 Fog Alert' promo and who made it...... It appears in what most collectors label the '76 package but seems wholly out of place to me.
  • AndyWAndyW June 2012
    I'd always assumed the Fog Alert intro and bed was a BBC Radiophonic Workshop creation. Sounds much more like them than JAM.
  • Andy, check the R1 '76 Customs thread - I now know where the Fog Alert backing track comes from......
  • MarkSMarkS June 2012
    Does anyone know what has happened to the ‘JAM BBC RADIO 1 CUSTOM CUTS’ thread?

    Jon very kindly posted the Jam 1976 Radio 1 master logs on Sunday morning – then, soon after that, the thread just disappeared! Any attempt to access it from ‘old links’ just bring up a page saying: Permission Problem!

    Is it just me…?
    Thanks,
    Mark.
  • wixy1360wixy1360 June 2012
    Maybe it was removed as a "Copyright Protection" matter or something?
    Legals, legals, legals,..... :-(
  • I have not had the same problem as you MarkS, the link that still works for me is:
    http://jinglemad.com/index.php?p=/discussion/8889/jam-1976-bbc-custom-cuts/p2

    The JM server does seem quite temperamental to me at times, throwing our random errors, yet still working OK, but give the above link another try. If that still fails clear your explorer cache and click again. If all else fails then try the following directly:

    http://www.jingles.com/jam/pix/links/1976-JAM-Radio1-Logs.pdf
  • mattbeemattbee June 2012
    The JAM BBC RADIO 1 CUSTOM CUTS thread has gone for me too, throwing up the same message, saying do not have permission :(
  • TServo2049TServo2049 June 2012
    I have the same issue too. I'm sure there's a reason.
  • MarkSMarkS June 2012
    Norman, many thank you for your help and for the Jam link. I tried clearing the catch etc, but the link to the Jingle Mad thread still brings up a page saying: Permission Problem!

    It seems some other members appear to be having a similar problem too.

    Perhaps someone from Admin can advise?

    Thank again Norman.

    Mark.

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