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BBC Local Radio is changing
  • simon_t123simon_t123 September 2011
    It was rumoured from a source on here that all stations HAD to be Mcasso'd by the summer ... Suffolk's holding out which is good to see, it's their first ever sung package & only their 3rd ever package to date I think ... David Arnold from launch in 1990 with a positively orchestral suite of imaging, then it was a package from BBC Creatve around 2000, the last time they tried to use core branding across the network and then this package from S2Blue, problem being they'd not ordered that big a package, the whole thing is online at S2Blue's website & whilst yet it's sung & not Mcasso it's not a big selection and as you say getting rather dated !

    Their argument may be to get the new lineup in place and ease people into that before bringing in new imaging, some PD's consider a BIG sweeping change of staff & imaging to do wonders, some more cautious think that baby steps may well be best, one small change at a time !

    I'm still wondering what happens to 1st generation Mcasso stations, my local in Essex being the first. They've had the cuts since November 2009 (?) now, approaching their 2nd year of the same cuts in use, so I wonder IS the Mcasso imaging a package per area (which is not proving to be the case now) or is it more likely a free for all in which case stations like Essex can 'refresh' for what else is available from the collection.

    And by golly BBC Essex NEED to refresh lols imagehttp://jinglemad.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> travel & news get played to death !!!
  • simon_t123simon_t123 September 2011
    ... actually looking at BBC Suffolk's schedules, their brand new brekkie show with Terry Baxter "returning to the BBC" as they put it starts on Monday September 5th ... so, if ever there was a good time to get Mcasso'd lols imagehttp://jinglemad.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
  • mbmb September 2011
    I stand to be corrected but it's a bit pool of many cuts. I did understand the origional idea was that although sharing the package neighbouring statios would not share cuts so BBC Merseyside would not have the same cuts as BBC Manchester etc - However stations could choose what they wanted on a first come first served basis so if you are in an area where the station next door has all the good cuts ( relatively speaking ) you have to pick from whats left. I think this was part of the concept to get stations ob board as quickly as posible with te threat that they'd be left with the c**p if they were the last to switch.
    The whole concept was ill thought out and ill concieved by the person commissioning them, The production company who had little radio imaging expereince or ability and by BBC worldwide who drove through a deal based on business terms to make money for BBC WW. Again I stand to be corrected but the package was not bought by LR it was bought by BBC Worldwide so the power over imaging has virtually been taken out of local radio hands and put into the BBC commercial arm.
    The longer its on air the more money BBC worldwide make from the package.Watching pennies roll in is the key, they don't give a stuff about how fresh a station sounds, making more cuts or a new package would only cost money so i expect we're stuck with St Mcasso's 4th form choir and band performing jingle jaunts for BBC Local radio for a good while yet.
  • VinnahVinnah September 2011
    Even so the same cuts are being used near to each other. All Mcasso'd stations in the east (Not sure about Essex) have got the same travel jingle for instance and due to the location you can usually pick up 3CR, Cambs, Norfolk, Suffolk & Northampton in most of Herts, Beds & Cambs so they're all beginning to sound like the same station and being as 3CR and Cambs are almost identical it does sound rather boring across the board, with Suffolk keeping S2Blue it actually sounds really refreshing compared to the other Mcasso stations even though they're old jingles now.

    Out of all stations in the East I'd say that 3CR are making the best use out of Mcasso I haven't liked the new schedule which went with it though, fancy cutting an award winning consumer programme down to one hour!
  • VinnahVinnah September 2011
    I've put 3CR, Cambs, Northampton & Norfolk's travel together in the attached clip.

    EastTravel.mp3

    Attached files EastTravel.mp3 (1.7 MB) 
  • GBGB September 2011
    BBC Radio Derby are still to change aswell. I think they are all suppost to be changed by the end of the year.
  • timbotimbo September 2011
    One train of thought, RE stations imaging sounding the same across geographical patches, is that come the outcome of the review of Local BBC Radio I would put my hat on it that more programme sharing will occur. They have ruled out closing stations and closer ties with 5Live. The only way to reduce costs is either slash the number of senior Broadcast Journalists per station and/or up considerably the amount of shared programmes that are non news.

    Similar branding makes that job all the more easier. So I believe this will extend beyond evening shares that occur at the moment. I see more afternoon ('entertainment' based) shows being shared, in addition to greater shared programming at the weekends during the day. At the moment many of these shows could be being braodcast from anywhere to anywhere....use of GNS guests etc.

    Just a thought.
  • VinnahVinnah September 2011

    One train of thought, RE stations imaging sounding the same across geographical patches, is that come the outcome of the review of Local BBC Radio I would put my hat on it that more programme sharing will occur. They have ruled out closing stations and closer ties with 5Live. The only way to reduce costs is either slash the number of senior Broadcast Journalists per station and/or up considerably the amount of shared programmes that are non news.

    Similar branding makes that job all the more easier. So I believe this will extend beyond evening shares that occur at the moment. I see more afternoon ('entertainment' based) shows being shared, in addition to greater shared programming at the weekends during the day. At the moment many of these shows could be being braodcast from anywhere to anywhere....use of GNS guests etc.

    Just a thought.



    But even so, across the East anyway when they share programmes they still play the correct jingles out for the station you're listening I think they've changed the timings too recently as the pips no longer play over the jingles themselves like they used to with programme shares. Interestingly Suffolk's S2Blue timings still seem to work even with these changes even though their evening news bed is slightly longer than the Mcasso ones.
  • mjrukmjruk September 2011
    Hi All,

    I know this is slightly off topic, but do the traffic and travel reporters work for the BBC or are they external. The number of times I hear the presenters introducing the traffic news only to find there is no-one there and they just play the closing jingle move onto the news or whatever the next part of the programme was. It's bizzare! lol
  • timbotimbo September 2011

    Hi All,

    I know this is slightly off topic, but do the traffic and travel reporters work for the BBC or are they external. The number of times I hear the presenters introducing the traffic news only to find there is no-one there and they just play the closing jingle move onto the news or whatever the next part of the programme was. It's bizzare! lol



    I think most BBC stations take travel from Trafficlink, based in Blackfriars London and link up via ISDNs. There are often numerous reasons for the lack of a travel presenter, certainly from my current experience at BBC Radio Kent.

    There is only a slot of time that the travel bod has with a station before they move on to a different station. So if the radio presenter over runs then that slot may have expired and the travel bod may have had to dial out – they will know if it is too tight for them to stay on the line. They communicate with the producer or broadcast assistant off air to hopefully avoid dead air.
    If the programme is a pre-record and over running the desk might be being manned by a Broadcast Assistant that perhaps doesn’t do on air work and can’t self-read the travel - so they might chose to abort....although a competent one really ought to be able to anticipate the problem and not run through the sequence of jingles and go to a plan B up their sleeve!
    For presenters, as we have internet access to the travel issues for our patch too, a self-read is possible and is what I've always had as a stand by when presenting at Kent just in case.

    Other reasons, technical issues for the studios either end....could be human error (not giving clean feed to travel presenter through desk set up - schoolboy mistake) or could be just some random fault.
    Even travel forgetting to dial into a station is possible....I've had fire alarm testing as the reason before now!

    That's the main things I can think of in my experience, hope that helps.
  • timbotimbo September 2011
    ...oh should say Trafficlink have studios around the country, London obviously serves the South East.

    I always find it odd hearing our travel bods on commercial stations they serve too.
  • VinnahVinnah September 2011

    ... actually looking at BBC Suffolk's schedules, their brand new brekkie show with Terry Baxter "returning to the BBC" as they put it starts on Monday September 5th ... so, if ever there was a good time to get Mcasso'd lols imagehttp://jinglemad.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />



    Good for BBC Radio Suffolk 3 schedule changes and they're still using S2blue this morning, looks like they're happy with their current package which is cool because it's nice to have something different in the East since the others are all Mcasso'd now.
  • simon_t123simon_t123 September 2011
    The BBC F.O.I request people did acknowledge my request for information going back to the commissioning process for the Local Radio imaging but since I've heard nothing, I think it says they have 10 weeks to formulate a reply ... I was reading interestingly elsewhere that there had been a number of F.O.I requests and legal actions instigated on behalf of imaging suppliers over the BBC R2 imaging tender that went out earlier in the year.

    re: Vinnah's mp3 of travel beds in the East there's certainly a flavour going on there, Essex being the exception with their travel ... Saying that it's got to be due for a refresh, and Timbo's point about increased networking may well prove VERY founded ... Personally, if cuts really have to be made, then I'd rather the beeb playout localised ID's as they do now with regional share progs. What they do now in the evening seems to work, I presume Radioman is sending out commands to fire off similarly timed cuts in the locals. I know I was harshly against Heart wiping out the local ILR's and I'm certainly against closing local radio stations etc but if cuts really, really do need to be made then yes, chop out beeb local afternoons & maybe even mid-mornings, share a phone-in consumer show 9-12 and an afternoon show, maybe fronted by a regional celeb I don't know, Stuart White from Look East ? Insert local ID's, travel & news into the daytime shares, make sure the presenters cover the whole patch fairly etc. That should produce listenable local radio, albeit on a regional basis but with enough of a locally inserted presence to keep the essence of the output local for all ...

    Mcasso imaging would certainly help facilitate such plans !

    One of my main issues with networking Heart style was playing on my mind whilst stuck in a queue on my local A12 at 7.05pm without a hope in hells chance of a local travel update on Heart ! Saying that, they have increased local opt-links since cutting Heart down to fewer regions, but I digress lols imagehttp://jinglemad.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />
  • RWRW September 2011
    BBC Radio Derby have changed over today. The news intro sounds like a new one - a variation on the Devon/Northampton theme, but the travel is the same as the one that's all over the Eastern Counties.

    Just five to go now!
  • local_12local_12 September 2011
    Just listened to BBC Radio Derby, nice to see that there are still a few surprises and that the cuts haven't all been released. The travel is the same but unique in that part of the Midlands. Maybe now there will be a variation of the Leeds/Surrey news intro.
  • VinnahVinnah September 2011
    BBC Radio Derby's is certainly different and if it was the only station with Mcasso branding I'd say that it was actually decent, however it's just becoming the same old boring thing with Mcasso at the moment. It'll be interesting to find out what Suffolk & Cumbria are going to make of it since they seem to be really keen to keep S2blue.
  • tom_htom_h September 2011
    I like Derby's. It is a bit different.

    Heard an odd short one on BBC WM earlier, are there any other 'short' versions like this on other stations?

    Attached files ID2.mp3 (80.8 KB) 
  • VinnahVinnah September 2011

    I like Derby's. It is a bit different.

    Heard an odd short one on BBC WM earlier, are there any other 'short' versions like this on other stations?



    That's on 3CR sometimes.
  • fredgreekfredgreek September 2011

    I like Derby's. It is a bit different.

    Heard an odd short one on BBC WM earlier, are there any other 'short' versions like this on other stations?


    BBC Radio Gloucestershire use this all the time.
  • local_12local_12 September 2011
    Sorry, I was just wondering if anyone has the musical type Mcasso hour-opener used by Liz Rhodes on BBC Radio Cambridgeshire. Thanks <img src='
  • simon_t123simon_t123 September 2011
    One day dubs of all the CD's might make an appearance ... maybe lols !!!
  • simon_t123simon_t123 September 2011
    Not sure if anyone here recalls that I sent the Beeb a 'Freedom Of Information' request for info relating to the project Mcasso went on to produce ? Well after a little wait I've had a reply ... feel free to download & have a read, however it would seem the information relating to the subject is not very 'free' ... Which to me is quite interesting imagehttp://jinglemad.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

    a rel="nofollow" href="http://"
  • timbotimbo September 2011
    Here's a Derby TOTH. I hasn't heard this one until now so yes nice to hear a couple of different ones of late (WM and now this one).

    Enjoy.

    T

    Attached files Derby_TOTH.mp3 (1022.9 KB) 
  • star+tetleystar tetley September 2011
    This is a completely new TOTH but isn't WM the same as others apart from the orchestral finish. It's actually a bit strange how it switches.
  • simon_t123simon_t123 September 2011
    I like the Derby TOH, very good <img src=' I guess with almost all stations past the take up phase now this thread might quieten down a bit ! I'm still hoping for early adopters to have a refresh of some kind before too long ...
  • GBGB September 2011
    Loving the Mcasso BBC Radio Derby theme. There are hints of BBC Radio Devon in there, but highly vamped up!
  • VinnahVinnah September 2011
    The Derby one is certainly different, do all of the cuts on Derby have this sort of theme?

    Meanwhile Suffolk & Solent still have their old jingles which is great because they're still really good. Who made Solent's jingles?
  • jonnojonno September 2011

    Who made Solent's jingles?



    funny, I've been meaning to ask that for ages :-) better get round to airchecking some programmes before they get Mcasso'd

    Edit:
    searching elsewhere in jinglemad and on the net, a rel="nofollow" href="http://"http://jinglemad.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />
  • jonnojonno September 2011

    ...better get round to airchecking some programmes before they get Mcasso'd



    Here's a scoped aircheck focusing on the imaging in the first 45 mins of Julian Clegg's Breakfast Show this morning (Sep 29th)

    Attached files Solent 29092011.mp3 (4.1 MB) 
  • tom_htom_h October 2011
    Sorry if this has already been asked.

    But does the BBC specify a basic structure of what jingles are needed i.e there must be a news, traffic and presenter ID but any extra's are up to the station?

    Cheers.
  • tom_htom_h October 2011
    Accidental double post.

    - Sorry!
  • simon_t123simon_t123 October 2011
    DQF has suggested more regional networking in the afternoon, networking "across england between 7pm and 10pm with all stations linking together" (did they mean ALL or regions across England ?) and then after 10pm stations networking regionally. Local news output to be retained at least in the afternoons. So with that in mind it brings a more logical case for the MCasso branding, I think the DQF mentioned significant LR's would retain more local programming, and that BBC London would lose some off-peak programming to bring it into line with other LR's (whilst seeming to keep BBC London's individuality somewhat). With networking on the cards, when in place it would surely make it harder to reverse the 'same sound' trend of the MCasso imaging, as stations going in different jingle directions would then have network junctions to consider etc, I'd imagine across the network branding will remain the flavour for much time to come.

    The DQF also highlighted the removal of a number of split output brekkie shows ! That may mean a reduction in BBC premises etc, it's sad in many ways but at least the beeb is I think THE last media outlet to do mass culling of assets etc, the independent media have been doing it for years !!!

    I wonder if the old view that if the BBC were allowed to take ads & the licence fee was abolished etc would see things being done differently ? Less savings required could in the future mean a reversal of DQF plans.
  • wixy1360wixy1360 October 2011
    The descriptions above under the DQF proposals ("Delivering Quality First"...an utterly bollox phrase as usual, to euphemistically describe swinging cuts) are what the French France Bleu state-owned public local system have been doing for years - and still give seamless local/regional/national switching, and have had and continue to commission the best "network style - local versions" SUNG jingles around. Oh, and they DO take advertising, but don't let it destroy the high standards of their PSB programming.

    However, the Brits are forever "re-inventing the wheel" in general, rather than looking to see how anyone else might have already found ways to successfully solve the same problems...
  • star+tetleystar tetley October 2011

    DQF has suggested more regional networking in the afternoon, networking "across england between 7pm and 10pm with all stations linking together" (did they mean ALL or regions across England ?) and then after 10pm stations networking regionally. Local news output to be retained at least in the afternoons. So with that in mind it brings a more logical case for the MCasso branding, I think the DQF mentioned significant LR's would retain more local programming, and that BBC London would lose some off-peak programming to bring it into line with other LR's (whilst seeming to keep BBC London's individuality somewhat). With networking on the cards, when in place it would surely make it harder to reverse the 'same sound' trend of the MCasso imaging, as stations going in different jingle directions would then have network junctions to consider etc, I'd imagine across the network branding will remain the flavour for much time to come.

    The DQF also highlighted the removal of a number of split output brekkie shows ! That may mean a reduction in BBC premises etc, it's sad in many ways but at least the beeb is I think THE last media outlet to do mass culling of assets etc, the independent media have been doing it for years !!!

    I wonder if the old view that if the BBC were allowed to take ads & the licence fee was abolished etc would see things being done differently ? Less savings required could in the future mean a reversal of DQF plans.


    Even when all stations had their 'own' jingles many of the regional shows would break away for local jingles. It was obviously possible to come up with something of the same length for all locals by playing around with them a little.
  • simon_t123simon_t123 October 2011

    Even when all stations had their 'own' jingles many of the regional shows would break away for local jingles. It was obviously possible to come up with something of the same length for all locals by playing around with them a little.



    with mixed results mind ! last time I spied a Radioman terminal it looked like the local idents were fired off by a macro command from the host studio, localisation beeb style has varied results depending which area you live in, the presenter would frequently end up speaking over the vocal of sung stations where a end/fade existed for others, but whilst I think a separate identity is important & what we'd mostly all like to see, the use of MCasso across the board does tidy things up a bit if all this networking is coming our way <img src='
  • RWRW October 2011
    BBC Radio Manchester have marked their move to Salford today by changing over to Mcasso. News intro isn't very impressive, in fact it's just the fadeout from the Surrey/Sussex news jingle!
  • thelistenerthelistener October 2011
    Errr .... It's actually a totally new mix of an existing cut, made especially for Manchester.
  • mbmb October 2011

    Errr .... It's actually a totally new mix of an existing cut, made especially for Manchester.



    Well that makes all the difference, lets face it Manchester had top class imaging from an Editor who knows his stuff, having the cheapo Mcasso dirge forced upon them must be awful.
  • simon_t123simon_t123 October 2011
    ooo' Mancs don't seem to have a localised logo for their news sequence, just the 3 note B.B.C logo at the top, bottom and after the headlines read ...
  • RjMRjM October 2011
    I feared the move to MediaCityUK would signal the end of IQ Beats on Radio Manchester (new building, new sound) it's use seemed to be phasing out recently. I've not been overly impressed with what I've heard so far today, but to be fair I never would have been in comparison.

    The new sound is inoffensive enough, and I will give it time to get used to, but we had been spoilt with the excellent IQ package and it's many updates over the years (so no more sung presenter ID, sung weather jingles). IQBeats gave Radio Manchester a completely different sound to the rest of the BBC locals, and gave a big sound for a big city, and helped hugely in shifting away the cosy feel from the previous GMR.

    I am pleased that Trish Bertram (my favourite station voice) and Craig Kelly have been retained as station voices.

    Finally I know that the IQ "BBC Radio Manchester" logo stuck with people who had no interest in jingles, I wonder if the Mcasso cuts will have the same memorability?
  • olly92olly92 October 2011
    On Graham Liver last week he was talking a bit about the sharing. It sounds like in the evenings it will be BBC across the North (Like the do in the midlands) sharing on a few stations. I often check out Georgey Spanswick. She deals with it really well. They don't have the localised logo just the B.B.C.
    It would actually be the same LAN-CA-SHIRE MAN-CHES-TER MER-SEY-SIDE CUMB-RI-A In the north anyway.
  • petewilsonpetewilson October 2011
    Hi All,

    Here's the BBC Surrey/Sussex Travel bed in the clear (Thanks to incompetent presenters or equipment!)

    BBC Sussex Travel Bed.mp3






    I feared the move to MediaCityUK would signal the end of IQ Beats on Radio Manchester (new building, new sound) it's use seemed to be phasing out recently. I've not been overly impressed with what I've heard so far today, but to be fair I never would have been in comparison.

    The new sound is inoffensive enough, and I will give it time to get used to, but we had been spoilt with the excellent IQ package and it's many updates over the years (so no more sung presenter ID, sung weather jingles). IQBeats gave Radio Manchester a completely different sound to the rest of the BBC locals, and gave a big sound for a big city, and helped hugely in shifting away the cosy feel from the previous GMR.

    I am pleased that Trish Bertram (my favourite station voice) and Craig Kelly have been retained as station voices.

    Finally I know that the IQ "BBC Radio Manchester" logo stuck with people who had no interest in jingles, I wonder if the Mcasso cuts will have the same memorability?


    Attached files BBC Sussex Travel Bed.mp3 (1.3 MB) 
  • simon_t123simon_t123 October 2011
    Many thanks to Dominic, who emailed over the weekend to say that BBC Radio Suffolk has now moved over to Mcasso ... the sound is not too bad actually, as Dominic had been doing I checked out the new sound via iPlayer, some cuts very similar to BBC Essex but the use of them is quite different, Suffolk have kept their station voices ... So is that just Solent & London left to switch now ???
  • local_10local_10 October 2011
    Hello there, local_12 here (forgot password :-? ) as local_10.
    Anyway, all stations in the Eastern Counties have changed with Suffolk sounding similar but different to Norfolk. Cumbria hasn't changed yet unless they did today and Solent is still unwilling to change being the regional hub for BBC South
  • VinnahVinnah October 2011
    Interesting how Suffolk changed on a Thursday instead of a Monday as usual.
  • robertpobjoyrobertpobjoy October 2011

    One day dubs of all the CD's might make an appearance ... maybe lols !!!



    Probably not, but I do have a HUGE stack of these cuts working in a BBC Local Station ;)
  • timbotimbo October 2011
    I've heard and have a few BBC Cumbria cuts in Mcasso style and I believe Solent are working on them too as I have a couple of cuts from there as well.
  • timbotimbo October 2011
    Meant to add that the Solent weather cut I have is different to what I've heard before being used.
  • timbotimbo October 2011
    Bits referred to on the Soundcloud
  • simon_t123simon_t123 October 2011
    timbo, those Cumbria & Solent cuts are none too bad :) and robertpobjoy dear chap, if you have anything odd or new Mcasso-wise hidden away please consider letting us have a listen, ta !!!
  • fredgreekfredgreek November 2011
    The Cumbria travel bed is the same one used on BBC Radio Gloucestershire and BBC Radio Berkshire (I think BBC Radio Lancashire also use it but not sure).
  • VinnahVinnah November 2011
    I've been listening to BBC Radio Northampton's jingles, does anyone else think that out of all of the Mcasso implementations in the East, Northamptons seems to be the most unpolished out of the lot, not the quality of the jingles themselves but they way they're played out.

    The news bed doesn't seem to connect to the logo at all usually starting after a delay during the pips and it's now the only one in the East which is played during the regional programmes after 7.

    I'm not a fan of Suffolk having Mcasso as I thought the s2blue package was absolutely excellent but they do seem to have made a good effort with what they have, I still think that 3CR's use of Mcasso is more polished than the others.
  • star+tetleystar tetley November 2011