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BBC Local Radio is changing
  • goonernn7goonernn7 May 2011

    All the pre-corporate sound were from Music4 apart from the original 3CR jingles which were from a local Milton Keynes company.



    And JAM of course - which provided various cuts for 3CR's Ern & Vern over the years and the now-regional programme Rock and Roll Heaven.

  • Anyone know who made these? BBC WM 2002.

    They are not bespoke as I have emailed them to Tim @ Bespoke and he emailed back saying they were hot his.




    http://jinglemad.com/e107_files/public/1297207795_14723_FT75978_wm_2002.mp3 filename:wm_2002.mp3



    That's interesting as we on station were told that the music tracks were made by Bespoke. I think BBC Radio Leeds used the same music tracks at around the same time. All of the other elements were made in house and came in a number of guises, the first of which 'Voices of WM' were voiced by listeners (and in my opinion sounded awful!) but they won a production award. After around 6 months the listener voices were dropped and Asian Network presenter Samina Ali Khan was brought in to re voice (the cuts that feature in your attachment!). A third incarnation used Midlands Today reporter Lyndsay Doyle. This was that time in-between dumping JAM (and carts!) and taking up with Music 4 in mid 2004. The last package of idents used at Pebble Mill.

  • That's interesting as we on station were told that the music tracks were made by Bespoke. I think BBC Radio Leeds used the same music tracks at around the same time. All of the other elements were made in house and came in a number of guises, the first of which 'Voices of WM' were voiced by listeners (and in my opinion sounded awful!) but they won a production award. After around 6 months the listener voices were dropped and Asian Network presenter Samina Ali Khan was brought in to re voice (the cuts that feature in your attachment!). A third incarnation used Midlands Today reporter Lyndsay Doyle. This was that time in-between dumping JAM (and carts!) and taking up with Music 4 in mid 2004. The last package of idents used at Pebble Mill.


    The number of BBC stations yet to change is still in double figures. Does anybody know why it would take so long and when other stations are set to change?
  • simon_t123simon_t123 June 2011
    Some of the earlier BBC Local imaging, those mentioned from BBC WM, with BBC Suffolk using similar (and BBC Derby having a mish mash of instrumental JAM BBC Essex tracks & those from 'BBC Creative') I'd have to say that they DO sound very much like they were composed and instrumented by Bespoke Music, I'd heard that way back too from a reliable source but it's always been denied. What I 'think' might be the case is that Bespoke, JAM or any other producer that provided imaging in the "twinkle" era (where the logo's of the majority Beeb locals were almost identical) produced these under an all rights buy out type agreement like the one that Radio Two have recently sought in their imaging contract tender. That would make sense to me, BBC Creative seemed to be aligned to the network trails & imaging work that seemed to come from BBC English Regions in Birmingham ... These are not solid facts of course, but so many of the WM / Suffolk cuts of the time are alike to say BBC Wiltshire or BBC Sheffield tracks made by Bespoke Music at the time, my moneys on a buy out deal, in which case 'BBC Creative' could well be given as the producer of the audio in question ... if ANY of that makes sense imagehttp://jinglemad.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

    On a related note, lots of beeb locals have adopted the the mCasso 'stuff' it works I guess, it's done a good job of uniformly branding the stations, there are still many not using mCasso tracks, BBC Norfolk being quite prominent as it's a regional hub, you'd think stations like that would be more than urged to carry mCasso offerings. BBC Suffolk I believe is still singing with S2Blue, BBC Radio Shropshire certainly still singing with TM Studios when I was on holiday in April so there are a few still imaged independently, be interesting to know who else has not gone over yet (without listening to all on the iPlayer lols) I think the 'Jingle Network' wrote on it's blog that it had it on good authority all stations MUST be mCasso'd by the summer ?
  • mbmb June 2011
    The Mcasso BBC Local imaging was done under the BBC Worldwide umbrella.
    The push to have them playting on all asap is based on projected income from usage that BBC WW is not getting from the stations still using older packages. Projections of income were most probabbly based on all stations paying rights on the tracks by a certain date, if they are not income returns will be lower than anticipated.

    Nothing to do with having a unifed sound and creative but how much rights money flows back into BBC WW.
    The reason it is still not in use on some stations - My conjecture might be that the Editors on some of those stations don't particularly like the imaging being foisted onto them.There was a bit of "you don't want to be last and not have the choice of cuts" as regions side by side cannot use the same tracks. however laughable as a concept when they are trialing programme sharing!!! The thought if you are a bbc local with stations N S E W if you are last to adopt all the "good" ( and I use that term in loose terms ) cuts will be allocated leaving you with the worst.

    Trouble is the package was developed to suit the financial requirements of BBC WW to maximise revenue from playing out a package made on X rights agreement. BBC worldwide don't care about quality if if its the right product as long as they can show the ££'s from the model. Et Voila the mess thats on air now. Sounds awful but it costs YOU the licence payer less.
  • simon_t123simon_t123 June 2011
    ... @MB ... BLIMEY !!!!!! imagehttp://jinglemad.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />
  • tom_htom_h June 2011
    BBC Shropshire are now using the Mcasso jingles. Do think they sound slightly out of place on the station. They seem to have a 'city' feel.
  • simon_t123simon_t123 June 2011
    pah ... another sung jingle user bites the dust imagehttp://jinglemad.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' /> and to think how much that custom TM package must of cost !!! where's the talk of wasted licence fee money when stations ditch expensive packages for the sake of uniformality ? where it's improved a stations sound I'm all for it (or I was until I read what MB was saying about it being a BBC Worldwide 'pay per play' scheme) but where stations had a good imaging sound with time to run on their packages why dump out early ???
  • simon_t123simon_t123 June 2011
    ... nothing new at all in this package either !!! some stuff heard on Kent & Leeds, here's an mp3 however of the news in, travel (with some extra bed as travel were not awake yet) and a kind of standard presenter ID image

    Attached files BBCShrop.mp3 (1.4 MB) 
  • mbmb June 2011
    It just sounds awful. BBC Local Radi ois in the toilet audience wise.
    Being taken over by the News Dept didn't help as now the suits think the only thing worth doing is news news news - like people don't talk about anything else.
    BBC Local radio despite the commercial groups moans is so cash strapped, the overheads are mostly staff so any cuts mean people.
    Why does the imaging they were using 20 years ago sound more upbeat and alive?
    This imaging can only help BBC LR spiral downwards will dull lifeless middle of the road imaging. compare the TM BBC Radio Shropshire package to Mcasso. It's like Mozart and Aqua.
  • tom_htom_h June 2011
    Yeah, it is a shame. Shropshire's old jingle package suited the station sound.

    I've realized with the new ones, they don't really work if you have the travel after the news as the presenter ID doesn't fit in right. It just becomes jingle after jingle.
  • wixy1360wixy1360 June 2011
    As has been said before - if the FranceBleu system can have extremely good sung jingle packages with universal generics, regional variants, local variants, the works, then why do the BBC locals have a problem?

  • Yeah, it is a shame. Shropshire's old jingle package suited the station sound.

    I've realized with the new ones, they don't really work if you have the travel after the news as the presenter ID doesn't fit in right. It just becomes jingle after jingle.



    It's a surprise to read on a jingle site that somebody is not keen on 'jingle after jingle'. As a jingle lover, two in a row is great to me. On a Saturday afternoon Radio Leicester begin their sport programme with the introduction then there's the sport jingle then straight into the travel jingle. The excitement is too much for me! Perhaps I'm the only one.

    Back to topic, I can remember a lot of excellent sung jingles on Shropshire - it's a sad situation.
  • tom_htom_h June 2011

    It's a surprise to read on a jingle site that somebody is not keen on 'jingle after jingle'. As a jingle lover, two in a row is great to me. On a Saturday afternoon Radio Leicester begin their sport programme with the introduction then there's the sport jingle then straight into the travel jingle. The excitement is too much for me! Perhaps I'm the only one.



    I do like jingles after jingle but only if it seems to work. The problem is this package uses a mix of two cuts, Leeds and I think somebody said Essex, they don't seem to fit. Still surprised that WM hasn't changed over yet with it being a large station. Then again they may be waiting for Ed Doolan's departure and schedule changes.

    How many are left without the new package now, does anybody know?

    Cheers.
  • mbmb June 2011
    BBC Manchester and London will be the last I guarantee - Two very rhobust Editors with strong views on Imaging who have crafted vert strong station identity sounds. Poor Manchester having to give up ( one of a very few ) classy IQ Beats productions for that plinky old tosh just so BBC WW can make more profit.
  • WM will be going Mcasso in the next month or so.
  • mbmb June 2011
    Reload up the JAM WM Carts I say!!

  • I do like jingles after jingle but only if it seems to work. The problem is this package uses a mix of two cuts, Leeds and I think somebody said Essex, they don't seem to fit. Still surprised that WM hasn't changed over yet with it being a large station. Then again they may be waiting for Ed Doolan's departure and schedule changes.

    How many are left without the new package now, does anybody know?

    Cheers.



    10 I think.
  • simon_t123simon_t123 June 2011
    ewww I was an initial fan of mCasso's package but when it's rolling out in a VERY samey fashion it's starting to grate ... I would have thought WM would have changed earlier as I thought LR was controlled from Birmingham ? coming under the news umbrella has done stations no real favours ... from my experiences loitering around BBC Essex and trips of other beeb locals over the years they seem over-staffed, like most BBC things, there's producers, BA's and all sorts in the mix, someone for everything it seems sometimes and then stacks of journos and sports guys etc and bi-media jorunos that do bits for regional tv, the "online team" blah blah blahm I mean I manage to admin 5 'net' stations, one of which enjoys contributions from a number of remote jocks sending voicelinks and I do all that by myself, admittedly it keeps me busy !!! My point here is that savings must surely be possible in staffing costs, specifically ancillary staffing costs and not in station imaging ???

    I admit I am a fan of uni-formality in some sectors like transport (bring back British Rail and the National Bus Company !!!) but in radio I just don't know, there would have been so many better ways to execute this branding task, a sonic logo but individual packages and styles ? I don't know but with my local having picked up the mCasso 'stuff' a couple of years back now whats next ??? different mCasso stuff ??? surely 2 years is near shelf-life, perhaps the original adopters will be able to move out of mCasso times ??? Here's hoping, as some are sounding stale now and not everyones on board yet !!!

  • ewww I was an initial fan of mCasso's package but when it's rolling out in a VERY samey fashion it's starting to grate ... I would have thought WM would have changed earlier as I thought LR was controlled from Birmingham ? coming under the news umbrella has done stations no real favours ... from my experiences loitering around BBC Essex and trips of other beeb locals over the years they seem over-staffed, like most BBC things, there's producers, BA's and all sorts in the mix, someone for everything it seems sometimes and then stacks of journos and sports guys etc and bi-media jorunos that do bits for regional tv, the "online team" blah blah blahm I mean I manage to admin 5 'net' stations, one of which enjoys contributions from a number of remote jocks sending voicelinks and I do all that by myself, admittedly it keeps me busy !!! My point here is that savings must surely be possible in staffing costs, specifically ancillary staffing costs and not in station imaging ???

    I admit I am a fan of uni-formality in some sectors like transport (bring back British Rail and the National Bus Company !!!) but in radio I just don't know, there would have been so many better ways to execute this branding task, a sonic logo but individual packages and styles ? I don't know but with my local having picked up the mCasso 'stuff' a couple of years back now whats next ??? different mCasso stuff ??? surely 2 years is near shelf-life, perhaps the original adopters will be able to move out of mCasso times ??? Here's hoping, as some are sounding stale now and not everyones on board yet !!!



    BBC Radio Northampton kept a package from 2000-2007 so I don't think 2 years is the shelf life with current budgets.
  • simon_t123simon_t123 June 2011
    Ahh yes thats a fair point, mind you their Bespoke Music package was literally Bespoke and as a custom (cost vs syndication) I'd imagine the shelf-life would have to be longer to justify the cost. Previous Beeb packages have lasted 2 maybe 3 years on average, be interesting to see what comes after a big dose of mCasso for stations like Essex (who had possibly a November 2009 sign on with mCasso) ...
  • simon_t123simon_t123 June 2011
    http://www.mcasso.com/radio.php?sel_movie=radio6 has some examples of the mCasso LR imaging ...

  • http://www.mcasso.com/radio.php?sel_movie=radio6 has some examples of the mCasso LR imaging ...



    The sung 'BBC' at the beginning is interesting.
  • simon_t123simon_t123 June 2011
    yeah I certainly thought that when I first heard that demo, and thought it would have been nice to roll out with generic "BBC" sings at the very least !!!
  • fredgreekfredgreek July 2011
    BBC Radio Gloucestershire is now using the Mcasso package - the same Top of Hour cut as BBC Radio Leeds, which I don't think sounds too bad. The travel jingle's not too bad either. I can live with them for a while, until the BBC has enough money for individual station packages again.
  • BBC Radio Norfolk have not changed but I'm sure I heard some Mcasso on one of their trails. Any ideas what's happening there?
  • simon_t123simon_t123 July 2011
    Radio Kent had Mcasso material sneaking onto Radioman around the time it made the switch away from it's IQ Beats package so I'd imagine it was perhaps a sign of imminent change lols, they normally do these things on a Monday morning first thing or around some significant date like a bank holiday (probably to get past any imaging nightmares manifesting as teething problems !) Norfolks current package I don't know much about really, am sure Fred here said they were 'Maximum Productions' but not 100% ... Suffolks been clutching on to their package from S2Blue for almost a little too long now ... Essex changed a millennium ago it feels ! Whilst also in the region, Northampton were last heard using their Bespoke Music package, Cambridgeshire 'were' using Music4 but that might need confirming now, whilst Three Counties had left Music4 for Mcasso sometime this year I believe ... A few odds & ends to tie up across BBC East then <img src='

  • Radio Kent had Mcasso material sneaking onto Radioman around the time it made the switch away from it's IQ Beats package so I'd imagine it was perhaps a sign of imminent change lols, they normally do these things on a Monday morning first thing or around some significant date like a bank holiday (probably to get past any imaging nightmares manifesting as teething problems !) Norfolks current package I don't know much about really, am sure Fred here said they were 'Maximum Productions' but not 100% ... Suffolks been clutching on to their package from S2Blue for almost a little too long now ... Essex changed a millennium ago it feels ! Whilst also in the region, Northampton were last heard using their Bespoke Music package, Cambridgeshire 'were' using Music4 but that might need confirming now, whilst Three Counties had left Music4 for Mcasso sometime this year I believe ... A few odds & ends to tie up across BBC East then image



    I have heard stations in the past using new jingles on trails before the actual launch date. I really wouldn't bother with this package! It's not as if we're getting an exciting taster.
  • local_12local_12 July 2011
    A contact at Mcasso has said that BBC London will be rebranded with the Mcasso jingle and every LR station will have the ident by 2012
  • mbmb July 2011

    A contact at Mcasso has said that BBC London will be rebranded with the Mcasso jingle and every LR station will have the ident by 2012



    Such a shame as BBC London has great strong imaging and the Mcasso stuff will sound dreadful on air, especially up against a strong sonic identity like LBC. But quality is not the issue with this project BBC wprldwide reaping in royalities and a share of the publishing rights is. I think it fair to say that some stations will be dragged kicking nd screaming into using them because they are programmed by people who understand on air branding and identity and really dont like the dishwater from Mcasso.
  • simon_t123simon_t123 July 2011
    Maybe London will have refreshed cuts ??? or have all the mCasso cuts that exist been released now ???

    Would be nice to have some of these cuts in the clear appear for collectors, and beeb local types able to load up some news or travels for us JM'ers ??? thats where the better cuts lie, in the information sequences, the ID's can be a bit flaky ... Following up MB's comments on BBC Worldwide being behind these cuts, I wonder if there is a shelf-life for the project ??? Several years should see the package come to an end naturally, unless of course it's refreshed or added too, even rotated amongst stations ...

    Lots of speculation there mind imagehttp://jinglemad.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
  • freq-kyfreq-ky July 2011

    Radio Kent had Mcasso material sneaking onto Radioman around the time it made the switch away from it's IQ Beats package so I'd imagine it was perhaps a sign of imminent change lols, they normally do these things on a Monday morning first thing or around some significant date like a bank holiday (probably to get past any imaging nightmares manifesting as teething problems !) Norfolks current package I don't know much about really, am sure Fred here said they were 'Maximum Productions' but not 100% ... Suffolks been clutching on to their package from S2Blue for almost a little too long now ... Essex changed a millennium ago it feels ! Whilst also in the region, Northampton were last heard using their Bespoke Music package, Cambridgeshire 'were' using Music4 but that might need confirming now, whilst Three Counties had left Music4 for Mcasso sometime this year I believe ... A few odds & ends to tie up across BBC East then image



    BBC Radio Cambridgeshire ARE still using Music 4.And if it's true about 2012 being the deadline for all of them to go switch to the corporate package,I hope the remainder do it kicking and screaming,especially BBC Radio Manchester.
  • tom_htom_h July 2011
    I think the mCasso package will be better received on some stations than others. I can't wait for WM to change because it currently sounds so dated. I think the quality also depends on if the cuts are from different packages. In my opinion BBC Radio Shropshire's sounds very poor because of the mix but Stoke is the opposite as it has a consistent sound.

  • I think the mCasso package will be better received on some stations than others. I can't wait for WM to change because it currently sounds so dated. I think the quality also depends on if the cuts are from different packages. In my opinion BBC Radio Shropshire's sounds very poor because of the mix but Stoke is the opposite as it has a consistent sound.


    Some of the news build-ups are OK but can't see much in the rest of the packages.
  • local_12local_12 July 2011
    From Monday 25 July 2011 BBC Radio Northampton changed to Mcasso leaving behind Bespoke Music.You can catch it on iPlayer and sounds similar to BBC Radio Devon
  • simon_t123simon_t123 July 2011
    Northampton & their Mcasso package is nothing new sadly, it's cut for cut like the recent Shropshire package, we can tell the packages have well & truly done the rounds now ... tho' it's an update & possibly an improvement on the Bespoke imaging mind, I never really liked that Bespoke logo !
  • local_12local_12 July 2011
    I wonder if Mcasso are reserving a couple of cuts specially for London...
    Maybe even a unique logo like Leicester and Humberside...
  • simon_t123simon_t123 July 2011
    that's what I forgot to say about Northampton, am NOT impressed by the logo they went for ... it's the same as another stations logo and ok it's got the same number of notes as 'Northampton' has syllables but it just don't seem to flow right on the cuts ... hey ho, there's nowt that can be done here now !!! I'd hope @local_12 they have some better variations or even a customised set of cuts for London, the slow ploddy beds won't cut it in London, some of the dance/pop might work but am sure they will get some kind of custom take on the MCasso sound, am not really sure however that any of the other LR stations will get that, those yet to change will possibly 'fill the gaps' as it were in between stations that have already taken Mcasso packages.

    it does seem that 'most' stations have cuts with their localised logo, the first clutch of adopters did BBC Essex / Hereford Worcester could have used the same logo to keep things cheap but theres subtle differences to the logo, stations more recently have made do with previously used logos, the Northampton package highlights this, the logos not quite right "North-hamp-ton" where it should be more "North-am'ton" if you get what I mean ? lols ...
  • GBGB July 2011
    I have to say that I much prefer the mcasso BBC Radio Northampton jingles to the old bespoke package. I didn't like that 'dum-dee-dum-dee-dum sound that was heard for example, in the travel bed I think. I'm surpirsed they took so long to change it!
  • goonernn7goonernn7 July 2011

    I have to say that I much prefer the mcasso BBC Radio Northampton jingles to the old bespoke package. I didn't like that 'dum-dee-dum-dee-dum sound that was heard for example, in the travel bed I think. I'm surpirsed they took so long to change it!



    I loved the bespoke material for Northampton - especially the first package way back when.

    So in case we forget how good BBC local radio sounded in the 2000s before Mucarso, here are three montages: let's hear from JAM, Bespoke, Jones-TM, S2Blue and IQBeats

    Attached files BBC Local Radio montage 1.mp3 (6.2 MB)  BBC LR montage 2.mp3 (3 MB)  bbc LR montage 3.mp3 (3.5 MB) 
  • star+tetleystar tetley August 2011

    I loved the bespoke material for Northampton - especially the first package way back when.

    So in case we forget how good BBC local radio sounded in the 2000s before Mucarso, here are three montages: let's hear from JAM, Bespoke, Jones-TM, S2Blue and IQBeats


    Thanks for that, I loved it!

    By the way, all change in Cambridge today.
  • simon_t123simon_t123 August 2011
    well the Cambs news in is a new one in me img src="their travel, the best of those available I.M.O is the same as that heard on Shropshire & Northampton, elsewhere it's the same old same old, as we've come to expect by now http://jinglemad.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> I'm still dual-minded on things overall, I love my jingles but I also love a uniform sound lols !!! I think I'd always sit on the fence lols, my only real concerns are stations first to be Mcasso'd now starting to sound 'stale' what's the move on plan ? Rotate Mcasso packages ? That would make sense <img src='
  • star+tetleystar tetley August 2011

    well the Cambs news in is a new one in me img src="their travel, the best of those available I.M.O is the same as that heard on Shropshire & Northampton, elsewhere it's the same old same old, as we've come to expect by now http://jinglemad.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> I'm still dual-minded on things overall, I love my jingles but I also love a uniform sound lols !!! I think I'd always sit on the fence lols, my only real concerns are stations first to be Mcasso'd now starting to sound 'stale' what's the move on plan ? Rotate Mcasso packages ? That would make sense image


    Cambs news is same as BBC Tees.
  • local_12local_12 August 2011
    So, Cambridge has opted for a more different version,it may just be me, but I am not happy with their selection it does not seem to fit with Cambridge, I was expecting something on the lines of Gloucestershire but there you go!
    The travel jingle like simon_t123 said is the best avaliable but is becoming overused as Three Counties and Northampton have it too. I'm a bit suprised about WM still not taking it,they could be next. Solent seems strongly against it as it is the only 'BBC Across The South' station that doesn't have it. I wonder who's next...
  • GBGB August 2011
    BBC Radio Berkshire has now changed to the new package. It sounds great with the news build similar to that of BBC Sussex, BBC Surrey, BBC Radio Leeds and BBC Radio Gloucestershire, and the travel similar to the varaint used by BBC Radio Gloucestershire.

    I think that is now 32 of the 40 BBC local stations using the package.
  • AndyWaltersAndyWalters August 2011
    WM will be airing Mcasso as of this coming Monday morning.
  • mbmb August 2011

    WM will be airing Mcasso as of this coming Monday morning.



    <sigh> this is getting like Japanese knotweed.
  • tom_htom_h August 2011

    WM will be airing Mcasso as of this coming Monday morning.



    About time, might drag the station up a bit. image
    Just hope the cuts don't clash like Shropshire's.
  • InfernoInferno August 2011

    About time, might drag the station up a bit. image
    Just hope the cuts don't clash like Shropshire's.



    They probably will as with all the BBC Local's. Grin and bear it until things change as far I'm concerned.

    It would be nice to hear JAM jingles on WM again. They certainly 'dragged the station up' in 1988 <img src='
  • tom_htom_h August 2011

    They probably will as with all the BBC Local's. Grin and bear it until things change as far I'm concerned.

    It would be nice to hear JAM jingles on WM again. They certainly 'dragged the station up' in 1988 image



    Anything than what they've got now is better and I think I'm one of the few that quite likes the mCasso jingles.

    The current Music4 jingles were fine when they started but they seem to have dated very quickly.

    Thinking about it, I had a suspicion they were going to change them this Monday because the past few weeks they haven't had the full daytime line up, with cover presenters here there and everywhere!
  • InfernoInferno August 2011

    Anything than what they've got now is better and I think I'm one of the few that quite likes the mCasso jingles.

    The current Music4 jingles were fine when they started but they seem to have dated very quickly.

    Thinking about it, I had a suspicion they were going to change them this Monday because the past few weeks they haven't had the full daytime line up, with cover presenters here there and everywhere!



    In fairness I wouldn't mind if the Mcasso jingles were about on 2 stations per region and didn't clash but I really dislike this same uniform branding for all, although slightly different. Every station and area it represents is different and it should reflect that in the jingles and identity.
  • simon_t123simon_t123 August 2011