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Jingle Collecting and Trading Etiquette
  • Hi All,

    Because I am new here, and would like to know what I am doing so as to not make myself look like a complete moron, I'd like to know the rules/suggestions/etiquette for jingle collecting and trading? More specifically, when someone trades you a jingle, can you then use it in montages or should you ask their permission before doing so? Also, I assume it is common courtesy to offer jingles in return for a jingle trade, however I have almost nothing original to trade others. Most everything I have came from what's already on the net. Any suggestions on how to bulk up my collection? What else should I know?

    Thanks,

    Noah
  • ntcarver0 said:

    when someone trades you a jingle, can you then use it in montages

    A third party sharing/trading a jingle (or jingles) does not have to grant you permission to use that jingle (or jingles) in a montage.
    Personally speaking, it would be courteous to ask permission to use someone's personal cut.
  • A good question to ask Noah, as the topic always does hover around in the background,
    especially with newer collectors.

    A brief (?!?) note or two:-

    1) obviously if trading/sharing items as Collectors, we respect the Copyright of the producers/owners
    of the original material, and acknowledge that they " know" what we do and that we enjoy our hobby
    with their "nod" as long as we don't abuse the material (e.g. sell copies, use on on-air/broadcast
    stations without consent/airplay fees, and so on).

    Ultimately, e.g. { JAM } could "enforce" their Copyright on station dubs that we might share
    if they chose to do so. There are historical instances of "cease and desist" style action in
    the UK when someone "sold" copies of an American producer's station references online.

    2) "it would be courteous to ask permission to use someone's personal cut (in a montage)"

    "If in doubt, ASK" as it used to be printed on certain technical documentation I produced when at work.

    (Once upon a time, someone who shall remain nameless put my shiny new first JAM Personal Cut
    into a montage without asking me; I wasn't too pleased lets say).

    3) in the past, many Collectors "traded" on a "one-for-one" basis - i.e. one package (or rough
    quantity of items) in a swap.

    With the "digital age", its no longer expensively sending physical reels/cassettes/disks through
    the mail (yes, some of us have been in the jingle collecting game for a VERY long time!), so
    the old " conventions" have relaxed a bit.

    I have so much now (too much of it really), that I often do "donation" (say that with a French accent)
    to other collectors, especially of the "Trusted Collector" category, who I know won't send out the
    whole lot openly to the Internet); in these cases I'm not worried about "getting something in exchange".

    Other collectors kindly send me "surprises" out-of-the-blue too, especially "Holy Grails".

    4) Audio quality in swaps etc.

    In the earlier internet days, when people were using MP3 to "digitize" analogue tapes into
    smaller files for pre-broadband dead-slow transfer, a lot of "good stuff" got ruined by
    being "saved" to MP3 instead of .WAV and the tapes then dumpstered.

    So always beware, even now, of people who "offer" MP3/WMA dubs in return for "proper" WAV files
    (and avoid people who "re-master" MP3 "up" to "WAV specification" - once data-compressed, the
    full spec CANNOT be restored - think Tracy's "photocopying the Mona Lisa").

    5) personally, I treat montages as "shop windows" of what I have. I don't try to put entire
    packages "in-the-clear" out into public domain internet places, especially as some jingle
    dubs (especially "Grails" or rare items) can often have taken me or others a lot of time effort
    or expense to obtain - I'll discretely swap via closed-circuit systems such as Dropbox.

    I've only really scratched the surface.
    Other JMers I'm sure will expand on these basic "tenets", as we usually do when the topic comes up!
    :^)

    In the meantime, I'll contact you off-Forum to see what sort of packages/station material you
    might be interested in.

    Best Regards
    IJ


  • A quick remark on "Etiquette" in the Soundcloud era, regarding "permission" to montage/post "elsewhere".

    I discovered this morning that a lot of the recent S/c submissions on JM are getting "re-posted"
    by "others" on their S/c pages, including "in-the-clear" Personal Cuts.

    When I post audio here to S/c, I use "Private" mode so that the item can't (shouldn't?) be searchable
    by non JMers, i.e. not random "public domain" lurkers.

    So if anyone doesn't wan't "others" to play with their bought-and-paid-for personal cuts, or (maybe)
    rare items, either watch those tags when uploading, or put a "distorter" or "spoiler" tone or
    whatever into the audio.

    Remember, golden rule of the internet - "Pandora's Box" /genies/ bottles.
  • Wise words there Iain. A true stalwart in our small world.

    My two cents worth....

    We all started with nothing. It pays to specialise on a particular station or city and offer something, even if it's airchecks and eventually people will share material with you to expand your knowledge and collection. Saying just 'send me all your jingles' will generally be ignored !

    Unless you have paid for a personal jingle licence it is not yours to trade, so the whole hobby of collecting and trading someone else's copyrighted material is a little murky to say the least. The best trades are done are far away from this site. I think I'm right in saying that even Jon Wolfert, the biggest collector of them all, started by trading other people's material.

    My advice is to get yourself a 2-track 15ips 1/4 inch reel to reel tape machine and a DAT deck. Learn how to use them. Then you can offer to transfer analogue material to digital for individuals and radio stations. The dubs I have made over the years doing this are the backbone of my collection now.

    Good luck.
  • Noah, Good advice there from Graham.

    The equipment / dubbing suggestion though may perhaps now be a bit beyond a teenage "newbie"
    collector - but perhaps some of the people at the community (?) station you're involved with might
    be worth chatting to about that.

    { "A true stalwart in our small world" -
    Aw, gee, shucks, I'm all embarrassed now! Not so much a "stalwart" really, as just someone who's been
    collecting these "five second songs" for almost (but not quite) as long as JMW ! }
  • @GrahamCollins Thanks much for that advice. Would it also be worth it to get a cassette deck, or is that a waste of money? Also, as for airchecking, any suggestions on a particularly good radio, or can I just use one so long as it has a stereo output that I can hook a recorder up to?

    The equipment / dubbing suggestion though may perhaps now be a bit beyond a teenage "newbie"
    collector - but perhaps some of the people at the community (?) station you're involved with might
    be worth chatting to about that.



    I'm not sure how much they would be of help, as I generally was the one learning how to use the equipment there. Would you guys be willing to answer any questions if they came up?
  • ntcarver0 said:

    Any suggestions on how to bulk up my collection?


    Shameless plug for the MPF monthly collections for $20 and full package dubs at $49. These can't be traded but it's a good way to get started with building your own collection.
    Everything released so far is at https://jingles.org/MPF%2DProducts.html

  • "Shameless plug"

    TC - did the "spreadsheet" quick-look-up "ready reconner" of everything available continue to be
    updated, or did it fall by the wayside?
  • I wouldn't bother with a cassette deck. Record online radio airchecks directly to your computer's HDD using Audacity. You can edit them down to suit.

    I used to record a selection of radio stations, all from London, to compare the different breakfast shows available. Of mild interest to an American friend who then sent me some of his station jingles.

    Once you can record cleanly from your computer you can grab all the demos and cuts in the clear that you want from the various producers' websites.
  • Will do. There are actually a few stations here that aren't online, so that's why I made the radio comment.
  • Try and look for an old tuner then from eBay, plug in an aerial and connect it to your soundcard RCA sockets or motherboard 3.5mm stereo jack input.
  • OK, will do. Thanks.
  • jonnojonno July 31
    Noah, if you're in the US, then check out thrift stores if you have any locally. I'm on a Facebook Vintage hifi group and there are guys on there who pick up some nice kit for not a lot of $$ that way.
  • Noah - you should find an email from me on your 494 email address
    IJ
  • scotronscotron July 31
    I love it when the Jingle World comes together to help out someone who is just finding their way in this unique hobby that we all love. Well done Iain, Jonno, Games Wizard, TC and Graham.
  • ntcarver0ntcarver0 August 1
    @IainJohnston I don't see it in my inbox or spam folders. Could you try resending?

    To all of y'all, thanks. It's really appreciated. I'm really beginning to love this little hobby, and finding all this help and knowledge here is fantastic. I'll definitely be taking your suggestions.
  • Re-try now in progress Noah :^)
  • ntcarver0ntcarver0 August 1
    I got the Dropbox email.
  • Good!

    Do the several small montages/samplers play OK?

    If so, either delete them or copy them somewhere in a hard drive folder away from the Dropbox "...noahc" folder.
    There is a size limit on free-of-charge Dropbox, so keeping the "live" Dropbox transfer folder optimized is worthwhile.

    A bundle of audio has been kindly contributed to pass on to you if Dropbox runs OK.

    Probably have to transfer in batches, but we'll see how it goes :^)

    IJ
  • ntcarver0ntcarver0 August 2

    Good!

    Do the several small montages/samplers play OK?

    If so, either delete them or copy them somewhere in a hard drive folder away from the Dropbox "...noahc" folder.
    There is a size limit on free-of-charge Dropbox, so keeping the "live" Dropbox transfer folder optimized is worthwhile.

    A bundle of audio has been kindly contributed to pass on to you if Dropbox runs OK.

    Probably have to transfer in batches, but we'll see how it goes :^)

    IJ



    Thank you. The audio plays fine, and is now sorted into my Montages and Samplers folder. I have also removed it from the transfer folder. I have Dropbox Plus, so you can fire as much as you like providing you also have Dropbox Plus.
  • ntcarver0ntcarver0 August 11
    Another question (I seem to be full of those LOL). Would it be worthwhile to mark the material I get as to who sent it to me, or is that not worth doing?
  • If its "generic" such as demos. No.

    If its rarer material, especially if Embargoed, yes.
  • rakrak August 11
    ntcarver0 said:

    Would it be worthwhile to mark the material I get as to who sent it to me, or is that not worth doing?


    That was much easier when we were swapping jingles on mini discs and CDs. A lot of stuff these days arrives by Dropbox, and if you're not careful which folder it's moved to, it can be tricky to keep track of where it came from.

    "Embargoed" is an interesting word. I'm sure a lot of material is traded or passed on, which shouldn't be. To be honest, the whole hobby relies on people passing copies on that they shouldn't be passing on. Stuff we shouldn't even have, anyway! I remember visiting a jingle friend, and being given lots of stuff from his 'embargoed' folder on the PC :o)

    One collector friend/Jingle Producer once said, over a beer: "If you don't want jingles to get out, don't give a copy to ANYONE!" He's probably right. Then again, it's only jingles, nobody dies if stuff gets out - as long as it doesn't get on air unlicenced.