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Why the archiving of old media is important...
  • tcarmantcarman June 17
    Here is an article on the destruction by fire of hundreds of thousands of music recording masters.

    I can't begin to tell you the trials and tribulations we've been through to try to find old master tapes. Many original masters are lost to history. The former management team at TM did a clean out in the late nineties. They tossed out all of their reference reels and sub masters, roughly 40,000 reels, into the dumpster. Toby Arnold's masters are gone, as are Peters Productions, Pepper-Tanner / MGBS, Spot Productions and many others. In some cases, dubs exist but they're NOT the masters.

    The importance of this is in the eyes of the beholder. In my case, I've spent decades and hundreds of thousands of dollars to try to preserve that which I can...... Either I'm really smart or really dumb...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/11/magazine/universal-fire-master-recordings.html
  • Sad to see that TC.

    Shades of the recent Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, and the Rennie Macintosh Library here in Scotland
    (for its SECOND time).

    More power to your elbow Tracy.
    {especially as we all remember when YOUR library got hit by the "hurricane" }
  • Thanks TC - I had no idea that this had happened so the lock down on the media speculating certainly worked at the time.

    On a considerably smaller scale, this just endorses the necessity to keep an additional back up of our jingle collections, as data 'off site' in another building or preferably different town, should the unthinkable happen.

    I haven't quite got to the point where I feel comfortable backing-up to the cloud.
  • Tracy is so correct. I dont chime in very often but Tracy does everything to make sure we can still enjoy these
    recordings. I sent him an email this morning regarding his efforts. I have learned a lot from this guy in regards to saving
    what we hear, what we've heard and what we hope is still here for us to listen to. Thank you to Tracy and all the others
    that keep the recordings in a safe manner. Thank you Tracy.
  • nleibonleibo June 18
    tcarman said:

    Here is an article on the destruction by fire of hundreds of thousands of music recording masters.

    I can't begin to tell you the trials and tribulations we've been through to try to find old master tapes. Many original masters are lost to history. The former management team at TM did a clean out in the late nineties. They tossed out all of their reference reels and sub masters, roughly 40,000 reels, into the dumpster. Toby Arnold's masters are gone, as are Peters Productions, Pepper-Tanner / MGBS, Spot Productions and many others. In some cases, dubs exist but they're NOT the masters.

    The importance of this is in the eyes of the beholder. In my case, I've spent decades and hundreds of thousands of dollars to try to preserve that which I can...... Either I'm really smart or really dumb...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/11/magazine/universal-fire-master-recordings.html



    I'm a little confused/surprised/amazed (?) that a "management team" at a recording-production facility would arbitrarily (or not) "toss" reference reels into the dumpster. isn't the "management team" under the auspices of the owner--so just who the heck was the owner at the time to "turn a blind eye" and allow this? It seems to me if one OWNS a jingle (music) recording-production facility, they must have some sort of "interest" in it--to allow something like what happened at TM or Universal music is "unconscionable". Pardon the "editorial".
  • Been there, done that. When money is an issue and you need space, stuff goes. Remember, there is always a master copy. And there is the master recording.
  • @tcarman I saw that article the day I was shooting PMs back and forth with you about jingle preservation and sight singing. The UMG fire was such a tragedy. Thank you, Mr. carman, for all you do to prevent fantastic jingles from being sent to the trash can.
  • nleibo said:

    It seems to me if one OWNS a jingle (music) recording-production facility, they must have some sort of "interest" in it


    You would think so, and I agree that it should be that way. Some of us (ahem) have a passion for this stuff. But to most (all?) of the others, it is merely a business. In their view if the tapes from last century, last decade or last week are not making them any money right now today, then they are of no value. The "who cares about this old stuff?" mentality is typical, especially in cases where production companies are owned by mega-corporations who don't even understand what they do. It's just like radio is now; all about the bottom line. How many stations have done a good job of retaining and preserving their own heritage? Sorry to burst your bubble. But I'm proud to say that JAM has never thrown out any master tape or reference copy since the day we started 45 years ago. It requires a lot of effort and space to preserve this material, but we believe it has value so we do it. Draw your own conclusions.


  • michimichi June 23
    But I'm proud to say that JAM has never thrown out any master tape or reference copy since the day we started 45 years ago.

    I would love to get fresh reference dubs of cuts I had done back in 1989~1990 when Fred was still alive (may he rest in peace). :)
  • tcarmantcarman June 23
    "But I'm proud to say that JAM has never thrown out any master tape or reference copy since the day we started 45 years ago."


    But we also know that you're the exception, not the norm, Jon.
  • glenglen June 23
    I asked for the old jingles from a station I used to work for; the current PD told me that I could them. He said he where they were; but he had go into storage to get them. I found out later that as soon as walked out the door; he just laughed.I found out later he threw away the next day. I went back later and asked about them and said that ' he never found them". What that young joker didn't know is that; I worked for the station before he was born ( I started in 1976). He just thought I was some groupie. He tossed the Sound of America and TM Rough and Ready remixes , Century 21 Super Country and the Jam New Tradition remixes. Along Tanners New Sound stuff.
    I did get the Now Sound and the TM Sound of America remixes and C21 Super Country remixes from a fellow former co-worker.I just wish I had the TM Rough remixes and JAM Tradition cuts. I would just settle for the basic cuts from each package. Similar to what T.C offers.
  • "But I'm proud to say that JAM has never thrown out any master tape or reference copy since the day we started 45 years ago."

    I suspect the website software here can't do it, but if ever a "LIKE button" was merited, this is it :^)
  • rakrak June 23
    But to most (all?) of the others, it is merely a business. In their view if the tapes from last century, last decade or last week are not making them any money right now today, then they are of no value.

    Can I give a mention to Steve England? He kept all his reference masters. When it came to the point where he could no longer store the reels, he made the reference dubs available to collectors - rather than throwing the reels into a skip. A number of members here bought a couple of packages, so the archive is preserved - if scattered around the country.

  • "A number of members here bought a couple of packages, so the archive is preserved - if scattered"

    Happy to say I participated in that!

    And of course all of those reels are carefully digitized by Steve etc and the files and copies are held in sensible places
    As are the original reels themselves
    :^)
  • tcarmantcarman June 23
    My understanding is that not all of the Alfa stuff was intact. But what did survive was painstakingly digitized by Steve and others. A set of those digital transfers exists in our archives, as we've pulled from them for our monthly collections.

    The original Alfa Multitrack masters were crated up and made their way over to this side of the pond by boat three years ago and occupy a rack of shelves in our warehouse.
  • jonnojonno June 23
    tcarman said:


    The original Alfa Multitrack masters were crated up and made their way over to this side of the pond by boat three years ago and occupy a rack of shelves in our warehouse.



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  • jonnojonno June 23
    But I'm proud to say that JAM has never thrown out any master tape or reference copy since the day we started 45 years ago. It requires a lot of effort and space to preserve this material, but we believe it has value so we do it. Draw your own conclusions.


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  • Don't know where you got those graphics from Jonno, but they're like the stuff we used to do on
    "lineprint" years ago !!!
  • jonnojonno June 23

    Don't know where you got those graphics from Jonno, but they're like the stuff we used to do on
    "lineprint" years ago !!!



    Good old ASCII art :)

    or in this day and age, should that be Unicode ? :-p
  • Appropriate to use with "old media" then!

    Actually, as the Steve England analogue reels sale was 2006, I'm wondering if it'd ok to show here now the original list of the 10 inch NAB ref reels that Steve made on offer to us at the time?