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14th August - The 50th Anniversary
  • For those of us who as teenagers were almost entranced by the "watery wireless" as Kenny Everett called it,
    its hard to believe its now half a century on.

    Rusting slowly away...
    image host

    ...or just long, long gone...
    image host

    And while all the fuss today will be about the stations Down South, BBC (Radio) Scotland also proudly remembers its heritage...
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40900666

    And of course, there's the jingles...:^)
    https://soundcloud.com/allthebestjingles/ij-1967-14thaugust-50thanniversary
  • petewilsonpetewilson August 14
    Do you have a Studio Quality copy of the (only) Catchy Radio Scotland Jingle by any chance Iain?
    There's plenty of MW "off-air" versions on the internet but nowt decent.....
  • Pete, The Stuart Hendry TOH there is all over the place but rough.

    Edit:- Pete - check your email inbox - 160k MP3 is the best I have here.
    Needless to say, its also on TooYube...


    The only "true" sung jingle they had was a "Radio Scotland" song/single by the Carrick Folk Four, and
    that's described in loads of tribute websites - a quick search will produce loads of references, and one
    guy whose father was in the band "saved" a copy to digital from vinyl some years ago apparently!
    A bit like this...


    "Couthy", as we say in these parts... :^)

    Any "real" jingles they had were yellow-pencil cut-and-splice edits of all the usual old PAMS rips of the era, etc.
    (references are in previous JM posts to those slant-racked Ferrographs that they were played from).
  • petewilsonpetewilson August 14
    The first one (Frank Cordell) reminds me of the "Carry On" Films for some reason...
    The "Catchy" one that I mean (I believe was also by The Carrick Folk Four) was the one that started "Fun for you with Radio Scotland, Radio Scotland calling you..."
  • scotronscotron August 14
    Will be tuned in tonight to Radio 2. I was only 13/14 when all this pirate radio stuff was going on, and whilst I was intrigued by it all back then, I probably had no concept of what was actually happening and the historic significance of it all. I just enjoyed the music and the challenge of trying to pick up stations at night on my wee transistor radio that I been given for my Xmas in 1965. Radio Scotland was an obvious one, but did I actually manage to pick up Caroline North up in Scotland, or did I imagine it.? I do remember Radio Luxembourg very well and the frustration of the well known ' fade' - seemed to happen when a great record came on. Happy times. Read Tony Prince's book and Johnny Walker's autobiography on holiday. Great memories of times gone by.
  • PKPK August 15
    Remembering ex colleague the late Tony Allan who as a mere 16 year old started on Radio Scotland 242, 70s Stalwart of Radio Caroline, Radio Nova Dublin and on current Radio Caroline when it was at the Maidstone TV Studios until he passed away in July 2004.
  • Like a lot of people, I listened to the Pirate Radio tribute at 10pm last night on BBC Radio 2.

    And like commentators or other forums, the exceedingly obvious chopping-out of PAMS jingles from some
    very well-known archive audio of the closedown day (and other airchecks from the pirate era) much surprised me.

    Surely the Beeb would have asked JMW for permission to include Radio England, Britain Radio, and Radio London
    cuts in the programme rather than brutally editing out perhaps something certain elements in the BBC might
    have not "approved of"? I'm sure he would have OK'd it for such a special anniversary (and even for no fee)?
  • Like a lot of people, I listened to the Pirate Radio tribute at 10pm last night on BBC Radio 2.

    And like commentators or other forums, the exceedingly obvious chopping-out of PAMS jingles from some
    very well-known archive audio of the closedown day (and other airchecks from the pirate era) much surprised me.

    Surely the Beeb would have asked JMW for permission to include Radio England, Britain Radio, and Radio London
    cuts in the programme rather than brutally editing out perhaps something certain elements in the BBC might
    have not "approved of"? I'm sure he would have OK'd it for such a special anniversary (and even for no fee)?



    Agree it was a shame that parts were chopped which spoilt it a bit for people like us.

  • scotronscotron August 16
    Real shame they had to edit out all the PAMS material. Obviously copyright restrictions were involved, but I am sure a deal could have been struck.
  • timbotimbo August 19
    scotron said:

    Real shame they had to edit out all the PAMS material. Obviously copyright restrictions were involved, but I am sure a deal could have been struck.



    Trust me the legal restrictions and implications of using them were real and could have been costly from what I've read. So I'd expect it wasn't for lack of wanting them included, but just impractical sadly.
  • "from what I've read"

    [I'm being careful how I word this post, for obvious reasons}

    I've seen some of the discussions on other forums, but no-one seems to quote any "original" reference
    to all this about "costly" or some (UK???) person "claiming rights to PAMS stuff" and wanting £100'000s
    from the BBC for it.

    Is this all "Chinese whispers" or a load of the usual web rubbish where tiny bits of "information" are
    propagated and distorted until people in real management etc positions think its real rather than fluff?

    I can't imagine the JMW we all know and respect being as obstroperous as some of these "stories"?
    (Unless someone somewhere senior at the BBC has really misread a situation, or has "believed" some
    other always-un-named party making unauthorised claims of some kind).

    Considering the history of BBC people using certain material of various kinds in many occasions
    apparently without proper consent, the apparent strict observance of "copyright restrictions" now
    seems a very strange "conversion". Either that or "BBC Legal" have too many "bright young things"
    that don't understand their own industry.

    So if there's a REAL "quotation" from a REAL "source" that officially announced why this has been
    happening, it would be most interesting to be able to see it, not FootFace or Twatter pish going
    around and around in circles.
  • Instead of all this speculation, I wonder if Jon Wolfert himself would be willing to comment and give us the facts. He is usually very good at this ! Come in Dallas you're through......
  • I had considered saying just that "out loud" Graham, but that's why I worded the above in such a woolly fashion.

    However, with the 50th anniversary of Radio 1 /2 rapidly approaching, and we don't know what might
    be happening in the background in any way with respect to audio for THAT occasion, we are perhaps best
    not ask for Jon to publically comment on any currently sensitive matters until after the September anniversary.
  • petewilsonpetewilson August 19
    I heard that none of the PAMS "Radio London" Jingles could be used last weekend due to copyright restricts by none other than Mr Cowboy himself...Ray Anderson!!!
  • Ah ha!
    I did wonder about certain posts "somewhere else" on this topic that involved usernames that always
    seem to end in.... 266 ;^)

    If ANYONE at the Beeb seriously believed that that particular gentleman had the slightest claim
    whatsoever to that material, then a) they need to go back to law school and do the lectures they
    must have skived off from, or b) as management at ANY level they seriously should NOT be involved
    in the complex world of intellectual property rights and the licencing/franchising thereof.
  • timbotimbo August 21


    If ANYONE at the Beeb seriously believed that that particular gentleman had the slightest claim
    whatsoever to that material, then a) they need to go back to law school and do the lectures they
    must have skived off from, or b) as management at ANY level they seriously should NOT be involved
    in the complex world of intellectual property rights and the licencing/franchising thereof.



    The BBC was previously sued by an individual and there was a fair risk of the same thing happening again - is the long and short of it.
    Sorry it's unfair to say these are silly (implied) people who don't know the rights laws. Legal advice was issued about what could and couldn't be used and BBC staff followed that advice. It's really as simple as that, no conspiracy, nothing more juicy.
    It would be reckless to waste licence payers money going through proceedings a second time on something completely avoidable. BBC did what any business would do having been advised by its lawyers.
    Hope that helps.
  • Surely the BBC legal people would have directly contacted & consulted the true
    Copyright Owners i.e. JAM/PAMS Productions Dallas for advice?
    Its not as if the BBC don't know who they are ! They worked closely together for 2 decades !

    If they were sued before (any links? references ? or once again is it all hearsay?), was it successfully?
    Was it actually jingles?
    Or something different entirely?
    By an "individual" or a legally-extant corporate identity ?

    As for the gentleman described by another poster, he "made money" by selling bootleg tape
    dubs of PAMS material (and that of others) even while the original PAMS were still in business.

    Surely the BBC legal bods wouldn't fall for a bluff from someone like that gentleman without
    "doing their homework"? If it was indeed him (?) he wouldn't have a proverbial "legal leg to stand on".
    In this instance, there was ZERO risk of it "happening again" if it was that person as described.
  • I can only surmise that a licence is still in place for the jingles and so the BBC cannot play another station's imaging.....