Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Login with Facebook

Sign In Apply for Membership

In this Discussion

Jam jingles oh dear
  • mjb1124mjb1124 March 9
    Must be UK vocals.
  • PKPK March 9
    Vocals recorded at S2Blue in Manchester.
  • What an "amazing" coincidence...this report appeared on JM sister website Radio Today...er...today...
    https://radiotoday.co.uk/2017/03/shaun-tilley-starts-new-show-on-bbc-locals/

    As for the vocals quality... listeners will ask "why are they singing "Seventy Seven" and "Eighty Seven"?
    Enunciation enunciation enunciation... needs a tiny but discernable pause/emphasis between the
    "...ies" and the "Heaven". And the sono lacks clarity - very "blurred".

    Awfy sorry Simon P - but JMW wouldn't have let some of these out of the door.
  • Jeez, I'm lost for words.....
  • rakrak March 9
    That vocal at 50"!
  • IanFIanF March 9
    I thought S2Blue were supposed to have new singers joining Steve Butler to do this kind of stuff??? A handful of theses were just about ok but most of them were dissapointing. As much vocal depth as a wheely bin too! S2Blue's PAMS resings for Coast & County Radio were far better! I'm not sure for the reasons for this but come on! A better job next time. I'm sure Top Format would've done a better job!!
  • mjb1124mjb1124 March 10
    Yeah, S2Blue generally does a good job on the PAMS stuff - maybe even (gasp!) better than JAM when it comes to the all-male unison sound (i.e. Series 27/29). A lot of their own stuff is good too. But these JAM resings definitely leave something to be desired. Best to go straight to the source in this case.
  • These cuts were not sung or mixed in Dallas, and this is the first time we've heard them. There are some problems, and the audio on SoundCloud is very distorted which doesn't help matters.

    The press release says "The programme’s imaging will be re-sung classic JAM Radio 1 jingles from the 70s and 80s produced by S2Blue." Our ongoing question is, if you're trying to re-create the magic of "JAM Radio 1 jingles", why wouldn't you spend the few extra Pounds to have them done by JAM, the people who made them in the first place? We never understand this.
  • I tried to recreate some of those classic R1 jingles with British singers about 20 years ago (the boss wanted a proudly British sound), a couple worked out pretty well and some others were painful- I wouldn't consider going anywhere other than Parkdale Dr now. Trying to remain positive, there are some GREAT cuts in that montage but unfortunately the singing lets them down considerably. It's a shame, it's not like the UK doesn't have amazing singers. The Dallas jingle singers have masses of experience, they clearly love to sing and do it with such confidence and ease. Don't get me wrong, I'm pleased to hear any jingle on British radio (I heard these 70s/80s Heaven cuts on Cheesy FM- a station that does have some good jingles!) but if you're going to do it, do it properly.
  • IanFIanF March 10
    I agree Jon. If they're recreating the Radio 1 sound of the day, then go to JAM.

    Hey Duncan, not all the cuts the Alfa singers did were great but most were good so credit due to you and them....which leads me to this......

    ....Maybe Shaun is partly to blame on this too. Maybe he should've been more demanding in the finished product like other radio folk in history. He's a paying client at the end of the day and standards should be there which includes his show, S2Blue's abilities and the sound of the JAM product! This topic makes me sad and angry simultaneously especially with those who CAN do better.

    Whinge over....
  • Curious to know why Jon wasn't made aware his tracks were being used/sung over in the first place.
    Does Jon not have to "pass/O.K." a resung product? After all, it's his great name/company at stake here.

    Is it part of the deal that a UK agent for JAM, i.e. "S2Blue", can use tracks at will without notifying JAM?

    Regardless, I've never been a fan of "cut & shut" jingles. They stand out like a sore thumb.
    And who on earth did the "sonovox"?

    It's resings like those Tilley cuts that could lose a company money in the long run.
  • In my opinion, 3 Lincs FM jingles that were sung well by Alfasound in the 90s and the most awful Christmas jingle 'yule' ever hear.
    https://soundcloud.com/user-223115677/they-can-sing-honest
  • LenGroatLenGroat March 10
    As Duncan said to get THE sound there is one place - 'Parkdale Drive' + Iain pointed out the '77' and '87' error due to
    (presumably) the DJ or someone at the station deciding on the phrase with 'Heaven' after it? S2Blue should know better and should have pointed out it would not work - but then again 'the client is always right' - that's why in some jingle packages EVERY cut ends with the station name sung identically. As far back as 1988 I had both 'Radio Trent' & 'GEM-AM' sung to VARIOUS melodies, in the front. middle or end of jingles....

    The KEY thing is it's 60 minute show covering 2 decades so why so many jingles (even Tony Blackburn has less) they should have bought less, and had Dallas vocals! Surely 'another Nail in the BBC local radio coffin' , trying to be trendy and garner publicity, but getting it the wrong way?

    I guess Steve England did the Sono which sounds fine, and I'm sorry to be negative as I spent a lot of the 80s in very long vocal sessions at Alfa trying to get even remotely near Dallas vocals - we only/partially achieved that when we (and Mike Powell at County Sound) flew in Jackie D, Mike Collier, Johnny & Debbie Hooper to sing on tracks Alan Fawkes and I created. But basically, to GET JAM you have to GO to JAM ....

    I DO have to say Alan Fawkes did write some GREAT tracks at Alfa - his melodies were superb, and Steve Butler and Sheila Gott were an excellent vocal 'team' then, but these are a backward step and not great PR for either the BBC or S2Blue. It's a shame as I met Simon at Alfa when he was one year old - and 3 decades later he lives and breathes radio and music production - but I think in this case it would have been wise to refer the 'client' to Jon?

    p.s. + of course someone does not know how to use a compressor and screwed every inch of quality out of them with OVER compression 1
  • "I guess Steve England did the Sono"

    Are you sure about that Len?
    Scattered throughout my collection are examples of Steve doing what I believe is the BEST jingle sono outside
    of Dallas (JMW and Ken Justiss no less) - maybe the mixing (and as you say the compression intensity) causes
    the "blurring" I hear.

    (By example - Steve on "one oh three point two" pan-pot for Leicester Sound, or even "knickers!" for Piccadilly
    - non-broadcast, surely ?!? - are better than what I'm hearing on the demo montage here).
  • "I guess Steve England did the Sono"

    Are you sure about that Len?
    Scattered throughout my collection are examples of Steve doing what I believe is the BEST jingle sono outside
    of Dallas (JMW and Ken Justiss no less) - maybe the mixing (and as you say the compression intensity) causes
    the "blurring" I hear.

    (By example - Steve on "one oh three point two" pan-pot for Leicester Sound, or even "knickers!" for Piccadilly
    - non-broadcast, surely ?!? - are better than what I'm hearing on the demo montage here).



    I have a huge collection of Steve England on Sonovox and do agree outside of Dallas , Steve has the best Sonovox voice in the UK

    I am 99.9% sure he was not responsible for the Sonovox , it's nothing like him at all

  • These cuts were not sung or mixed in Dallas, and this is the first time we've heard them. There are some problems, and the audio on SoundCloud is very distorted which doesn't help matters.

    The press release says "The programme’s imaging will be re-sung classic JAM Radio 1 jingles from the 70s and 80s produced by S2Blue." Our ongoing question is, if you're trying to re-create the magic of "JAM Radio 1 jingles", why wouldn't you spend the few extra Pounds to have them done by JAM, the people who made them in the first place? We never understand this.


    Sometimes Less is more

    Instead of 20 plus jingles with UK Vocals

    Would have been better to get 10 direct from the master



  • tyty21tyty21 March 11
    In JMW's point of view, and others, I would agree! If you're gonna do an R1 recreation, Parkdale Drive is the one and only place to be for that.
  • Steve England from Alfasound Days with Quick examples of Best Sonovox in the UK

    https://soundcloud.com/martinjlester/steve-england-martin-lester-sono-demo
  • Steve England from Alfasound Days with Quick examples of Best Sonovox in the UK



    Listening to that reminds me of Alfasounds "Sonotronix" demo from the 80's.
    That demo showcased some great examples of Sonovox's outside of Dallas (JAM).

  • Looks Like this is not a BBC in house show but produced by a company called Curly Cat productions and re sold to various BBC Local stations, I assume this might explain the cut costing jingles
  • IanFIanF March 12
    Just had a quick listen to theses S2Blue UK resings of PAMS and JAM for Johnnie Walker's Sounds of the 70's show. Cuts 1 > 5 are very nicely done.

    http://imaging.s2blue.com/Imaging-Package.aspx?packageId=ff48bc60-a2eb-4e11-b929-2e31b34ab19b
  • This company Curly Cat Productions is Shaun Tilley own company so he must have signed off on the jingles !
  • I notice that on the s/c "related files" to the demo there's "airchecks" of some of his shows (one has
    David Hamilton "sitting in"), JAM R1 (and possibly PAMS?) countdown cut number acapellas seem
    to already be in use?

    One file seems (and I apologise if I'm mis-interpreting this...) appears to be the programme
    going out on the World Service feed (???).
  • rakrak March 13

    I notice that on the s/c "related files" to the demo there's "airchecks" of some of his shows (one has
    David Hamilton "sitting in"), JAM R1 (and possibly PAMS?) countdown cut number acapellas seem
    to already be in use?

    One file seems (and I apologise if I'm mis-interpreting this...) appears to be the programme
    going out on the World Service feed (???).



    There was a sequence of about 4 JAM Radio 1 Chart jingles strung together - he's certainly showing off his collection of the R1 master reels.
  • rak said:

    I notice that on the s/c "related files" to the demo there's "airchecks" of some of his shows (one has
    David Hamilton "sitting in"), JAM R1 (and possibly PAMS?) countdown cut number acapellas seem
    to already be in use?

    One file seems (and I apologise if I'm mis-interpreting this...) appears to be the programme
    going out on the World Service feed (???).



    There was a sequence of about 4 JAM Radio 1 Chart jingles strung together - he's certainly showing off his collection of the R1 master reels.


    For Info :

    His Reply to this is shown below

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The BBC Vintage Top 40 Show hosted by the likes of David Hamilton, Mike Read and myself were recorded many, many years ago and are now getting repeated on Soundcloud! World Service always used the old R1 chart jingles

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    :





  • I posted the Link about the new jingles on Facebook and below is Shaun Tilley reply, I am sure Len and Jon will find this interesting, must be the first person that I have come across that works in Radio that has Zero interest in the Jingles, most people I know consider the Jingles on the Radio a most important part of the whole craft of the show / Presentation

    I am sure if Len got the same Gig he would be cherry picking out the JAM Jingles but looks like the whole selection was made by S2Blue
    who was told to get on with it

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hi, thanks for sharing the link. Jeez, where do I start. I 'genuinely' appreciate that you guys are really passionate about jingles ok. But being really honest with you, I am as far away from being a jingle buff as you can be despite my 33 years on the air so far. And though I have immense respect for the craft that goes into jingle making, I've never understood why anybody would choose to listen to a C-90 or CD full of jingles when they could be enjoying Steely Dan or ELO's Greatest Hits. I'm sorry if you feel offended by that but that's how I honestly feel about jingles. And having worked for some of the biggest stations in the country, I've no doubt played some of the finest jingles ever.

    However, apart from The Station Of The 80s package I played on Radio Luxembourg, I truthfully couldn't name you any other...not one :) Re : 70s and 80s Heaven, the brief was to have re-sung jingles that typified those decades. And hearing what S2Blue did with the 60s jingles for Radio 2, they were the obvious choice to produce them. And that is the extent of the thought I put into it. Forgive me but the R2 60's re-sings aren't the original singers either right!? Furthermore, I'm certainly NOT trying to re-create any R1 sound of the 70s and 80s as somebody claimed on the forum, that's a ridiculous comment. We're just giving a tiny nod in appreciation to that era.

    It's also important to mention that the BBC were nothing to do with the commissioning of these jingles as 70s and 80s Heaven is produced by my company. So the 'nail in the coffin' comment is as ludicrous as it is laughable. Passion and appreciation for this sort of thing is one thing but I'm at a total loss as to why radio and jingle fanatics get so irate and hot under the collar about this. There is a real world out there for goodness sake. I've just got back from a lovely meal with my beautiful wife in Greenwich and life is very good. Tomorrow, I can't wait to see my youngest 2 kids after school and driving them home, I'll be listening to Steely Dan's Greatest Hits, certainly NOT jingles. Even if I wanted to, which I don't, my kids would think I was barmy and rightly so! Finally and this is important, I'd just like to say that I'm a programme maker who produces shows for the largest audience possible. I don't make radio with (pardon me for using the word) anoraks in mind. A typical listener couldn't care less who sings the jingles as long as the mood is right. Although, if fans of radio in the 70s and 80s happen to like my shows then that's great!!

    Please feel free to pass this on to those who've vented their spleen. They've had their pop so it's only fair I get to express my view too. I won't be making any further comment though. Sincerely, Shaun Tilley.
  • Where do we start indeed?

    Not everyone in radio has to love jingles of course, John Peel hardly ever played his name check cut. I think he played it once... as a joke.

    JAM's own slogan "we care what it sounds like" says everything. If you're going to be on the radio you have to care about each and every element of your station/programme- every song, every link, every contest, the trails and of course- the jingles. Jingles clearly play a major part in Shaun's programmes, he's just had 20 cuts recorded and licensed which is still big money. Why wouldn't you care??? Being an anorak (a term I take as a compliment, some of the most talented people I've ever met have been really into their chosen profession) I notice that the beginning of Radio 1's Flame Thrower #6 "action radio!" has been included in that montage, whoever went to the trouble of ripping that from the R1 master also cares about jingles.

    I have to say that I wasn't irate or hot under the collar when I heard the montage, I just thought it was a great shame... and waste of money. Oh, if you do read this Shaun, some of my JAM personal cuts sound amazing going into Mr Blue Sky.
  • Here, have some jingles.....

    Disappointing to see the comments above. Thanks for posting Martin. I am struggling to resist the temptation to fire back but what's the point ? What's done is done.
  • mbmb March 13
    What he said /\
  • IanFIanF March 13
    Freedom of speech at the end of the day. His response has not changed my viewpoint. In fact in strenthens it! Now, where did I put my anorak.....;)
  • LenGroatLenGroat March 14
    This is rather like the Brexit, or NO Brexit debate - there can never be agreement.

    Or if we take 'radio' as an 'art' form, the different ways the cuts are sung is the difference between buying a print or an original oil painting. To many people, they 'look the same'; a discerning few know the difference...
  • mjb1124mjb1124 March 14
    Not sure why Shaun Tilley even bothered to have jingles if that's the way he felt about them. I fully understand that average listeners, and even a lot of radio people, aren't so into jingles, but there's no need to be so snooty about it. He seemed to take this as if it was an attack on him personally - if anything, the people at S2Blue are the ones that would be in a position to defend themselves. But ah well, at least there's still stations here in the States that clearly put a lot of care into their jingle selection, like 100.9 K-Hits FM in Connecticut as posted in another recent thread.
  • I'm not trying to insult Shaun at all, and I hope this doesn't come out that way (or as gobbledygook). I equate the use of jingles on a radio station to a professional utilizing tools in order to perform a desired task. If you want a quality job done, you use the right tools. Listeners do appear to care about jingles. My kids hate jingles (oops - my fault - teenagers exposed to many years of them...), yet will comment if I'm playing one (or the radio's on) where the singing is bad. If he's producing shows for the largest audience possible, wouldn't he want to use a quality product where the singers enunciate the words properly?
  • "There is a real world out there for goodness sake."

    I wonder if he thinks we're sat here listening to jingles 24/7?

  • IanFIanF March 14

    "There is a real world out there for goodness sake."

    I wonder if he thinks we're sat here listening to jingles 24/7?



    We just hurt him a little and he was defensive in return I think. A bit of ego there too which makes up for a lot of radio presentation in every sector. He's a great presenter in his own right. I liked his Signal 1 shows back in the day too. He's also human which means he doesn't get it right all the time. None of us do! This applies to S2Blue. If I was was given the honour, with 7 singers, or even 3 to stack vocal, to sing over JAM tracks, I would do my best to do a great job 'every time' and to adhere to the standards set at Parkdale Drive, Dallas. It is hard work and takes and long time to do this but worth it with the end product as previous S2Blue resings have shown. I wouldn't sleep at night if 'paid' singers weren't peforming as good as they could. A bit of national pride there too....If Top Format can do it , we can too even if we weren't singing as much as them ;) As stated earlier listeners "do" pick up on this kind of thing. If they talk about the X Factor that applies to other singing in other formats.However, onwards and upwards with this. I look forward to hear what comes out of Greenbank Road next regarding resings......time for a cup of tea....
  • A typical listener couldn't care less who sings the jingles

    A typical listener also couldn't care less about the type of microphone you use, who made the cable that connects your transmitter to the antenna, how impressed you are with your voice-over guy, or how clever you think your music rotation software is. Does that mean you shouldn't use the best possible? The quality of any project is the sum of its parts. 'Nuff said.

  • well, right on point about the listeners.....i think.
    if the double negative is just a mistake, then, i can say "exactly"!
    the listener could care less about all of it.

    kinda like ice cream. not everybody likes brand "x" best....unless its priced on sale, or even better, is free!

    funny how free gets converts.
  • I am definitely not a typical listener, as I do care what mic is being used......
  • SpoonsSpoons March 15
    I was once told "if you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all"

    Here goes...

    " "

    (That's all I have to say)
  • Ditto spoons
  • What a load of audio doggie doo...........
    S2Blue can "do" certain JAM Cuts (obviously not seven voice harmonies that only JAM does best!)
    PatMan I think pulled it off with these JAM re-sings but then he is a (jingle) Pro!!!

    https://soundcloud.com/s2blue/pat-sharp-jam-resings-2015
  • I'm not sure Pete..... It still baffles me why anyone would not go to the source for JAM resings.

  • IanFIanF March 25
    A better job from S2Blue. Well done guys and respect to Tony Mullins of Moorlands Radio too! :)

    https://soundcloud.com/tony-mullins-1/moorlands-breakfast-selected-cuts-jam-s2blue-z-force
  • Ian, you beat me to it! I'm a HUGE Jam fan, I have a few JAM and PAMS jingles now. However; Steve, Sarah, Simon and Michael were brilliant, allowed me to sit in the session at the old Alfasound studios (the anorak in me loved it!) I was ok to chip in after each take, give my opinion on the takes, give my view on the final harmonies and the final rough mix. I was consulted by Steve Butler before the session on which versions I wanted (z100 or R1) and I understand Jon W provided the sheet music/each voice part. Having seen the sheet music (especially cut 17 of Z-Force) I have a new appreciation of how cleverly the vocal parts are written.
  • rakrak March 31
  • rakrak April 24
    Just having a listen to this week's programme on Soundcloud, and he played Steal Away by Robbie Dupree - had a quick listen to Special Touch (JAM) - it's definitely Cut 9, isn't it? I'm sure Radio Trent/Trent FM had a cut based on that song as well. Cue Len...

    https://soundcloud.com/shaun-tilley-1/shaun-tilleys-70s-and-80s-heaven-22417-bbc-sussexsurrey 40 minutes in
    http://jingles.com/audio/d_SpecialTouch.mp3

    I do wish he'd play the Alfasound generic Saturday jingle (or the other days on the cart loop!)
  • LenGroatLenGroat April 24
    "I'm sure Radio Trent/Trent FM had a cut based on that song as well. Cue Len."

    Yes we did!

    Or was it 'He's So Shy' the Pointer Sisters, or Doobie Brothers 'What a fool believes' ?!

    :-)
  • rakrak April 25
    I've never heard that Pointer Sisters track before. I think this Trent cut https://soundcloud.com/davidfurness/trent6 came from that Pointer Sisters track


    And - the Robbie Dupree cut inspired Special Touch 9. Interestingly, when I looked up that Dupree track on YouTube, there were comments accusing him of ripping off "What a Fool Believes". All interesting stuff...

    Edit: Thinking about it, I think the Trent cut was more inspired by this Dupree track
  • rak said:

    I think the Trent cut was more inspired by this Dupree track

    Definitely. No doubt about it.

  • rakrak April 26
    LenGroat said:

    "I'm sure Radio Trent/Trent FM had a cut based on that song as well. Cue Len."
    Yes we did!
    Or was it 'He's So Shy' the Pointer Sisters, or Doobie Brothers 'What a fool believes' ?!



    I've faked up a segue that Len might have played on Radio Trent, back in the '80s. Going between the two songs in question, and proving that Alfasound could make some really nice jingles. The end of that cut would fit Solid Gold GEM AM, perhaps ask S2Blue to do the honours?

    https://soundcloud.com/davidfurness/trent



  • rakrak April 26
    ... and here's the same segue as it'd be heard on Radio 2 https://soundcloud.com/davidfurness/r2-dupree
  • LenGroatLenGroat April 26
    Thanks for taking the time for the 'demos' Rak ! Yes we did have some great tracks courtesy of Alfa, Alan & Steve, and an all boy vocal group.

    In the case of that track/ package the recording was done with the engineer at Revolution Studios in Manchester - he spent HOURS polishing the tracks. There was a great Al Jarreau 'inspired' one as well !

    As regards us getting it..... we did.... over a year ago :-)

    https://soundcloud.com/len-groat/doobie-m-m

    GREAT jingles never die.......
  • rakrak April 27
    The 1983 Radio 1 Startup had a track from The Answer, that's very 'Doobies' too
    - 2'45" into this.
  • rak said:

    The 1983 Radio 1 Startup had a track from The Answer, that's very 'Doobies' too


    That particular track has been discussed previously.
    Mark Paxton said the track is called "Doobie or not Doobie".

    The thread is here:
    http://jinglemad.com/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/5644/radio-one-early-morning-start-ups/p1

  • LenGroatLenGroat April 27
    Well this topic has changed direction 3000% - but thanks for the re-created 'history'

    Let's use it to mention the mighty Mike Collier (JAM singer and drummer) who did the great solo on our re-sing of the cut just last year. He first sang for Trent at Alfasound when we flew him in with Jackie D. in 1985 .....

    .... '95, '05, '15 .. OuCh !! that's 32 years ago....
  • glenglen April 28
    At apptx.1:55 is there a couple of beats Nothing But Class?